Hatrack River Forum: What has happened to you, my dear sweet Hatrack?

This is topic What has happened to you, my dear sweet Hatrack? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :

I remember back before I was a member, this place was awesome. Now it's just full of the dregs, people like me who simply don't know when to just quit.

Oh, how I miss those wonderful days of old. I weep whenever the thought of the joyous time comes to mind as I know that it will never again return.

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

You weep? Really?

Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :

quote:
What has happened to you

I have already provided this information

i just don't know if there's any reason to rehash it

Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :

Haven't seen anyone wax poetic in a few weeks.

Good work.

It'll pick back up when EG comes out and the flood is released.

Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :

There's not going to be much of a flood

Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :

I may not weep but this is my first post in ages... And it's to agree.

I come and lurk still but find very little conversation I want to engage in.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
There's not going to be much of a flood

What do you want to bet?

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

I don't want new people. I have to get to *know* new people.

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

I'll bet ten bucks, steven, depending on your definition of "much."

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I don't want new people. I have to get to *know* new people.

It's going to be one heck of a tide of FPS-playing adolescent boys.

Yeah, your job here is going to...not be fun for a few months.

You might want to temporarily bring on a couple of extra mods, just to preserve your sanity.

Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'll bet ten bucks, steven, depending on your definition of "much."

I'd say Hatrack will at least double forum traffic for a couple of months, possibly even triple or quadruple. It'll die down quickly after Ender's Game is out of theaters, though. I suppose if the movie is an unexpected flop, that there could be less traffic. That's really the deciding factor, though, don't you agree?

Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
There's not going to be much of a flood
What do you want to bet?

I'm right, and your theory about how this place is going to be flooded by 'fps playing adolescent boys' is typical steven-ridiculous, but the conditions aren't controlled enough for bets

that's ok though

Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'll bet ten bucks, steven, depending on your definition of "much."
I'd say Hatrack will at least double forum traffic for a couple of months, possibly even triple or quadruple. It'll die down quickly after Ender's Game is out of theaters, though. I suppose if the movie is an unexpected flop, that there could be less traffic. That's really the deciding factor, though, don't you agree?

I don't think many people who aren't already geeks interested in OSC will much notice the name of the guy that wrote the book.

Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :

I further think that many of those who might be inclined to do so, would simply remain on forums they already frequent, likely with its own thread. I wouldn't be surprised at an uptick, though-although that is based only on the vaguest uninformed impression.

Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :

Hello everyone [Smile]

I came back recently to check things out and was surprised to see that hardly anyone was left. Did you guys scare everyone else off?

Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I don't want new people. I have to get to *know* new people.

Ugh. I just got used to YOU like five minutes ago. And now new people?

quote:
Originally posted by steven:

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I don't want new people. I have to get to *know* new people.
It's going to be one heck of a tide of FPS-playing adolescent boys.

Yeah, your job here is going to...not be fun for a few months.

You might want to temporarily bring on a couple of extra mods, just to preserve your sanity.

JanitorHawn has a nice ring to it.

Posted by Mr. Y (Member # 11590) on :

Nobody wears hats anymore, so there is little use for a hatrack. [Razz]

Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :

LyrJanitor rings more true to my ear.

Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Y:
Nobody wears hats anymore, so there is little use for a hatrack.

But people still like rivers, don't they?

Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:

quote:
What has happened to you
I have already provided this information

i just don't know if there's any reason to rehash it

Personally, I think your diagnosis is wrong (if I remember it correctly, it largely had to do with ineffective moderation, inconsistent application of the ToS, and bad community practices). I think fundamentally what happened to Hatrack is that people who liked each other and liked discussing things with each other were gradually replaced by people who didn't care about each other and mostly wanted to hear the sound of their own voice (figuratively speaking).

Also, I think there's been a strong secular trend across the internet away from discussion boards and toward Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and the like. I imagine that much of what people used to get from dedicated discussion fora now occurs on social networking sites.

Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :

quote:
Originally posted by steven:
I suppose if the movie is an unexpected flop, that there could be less traffic.

I think your expectations are too high.

Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SenojRetep:

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:

quote:
What has happened to you
I have already provided this information

i just don't know if there's any reason to rehash it
Personally, I think your diagnosis is wrong (if I remember it correctly, it largely had to do with ineffective moderation, inconsistent application of the ToS, and bad community practices). I think fundamentally what happened to Hatrack is that people who liked each other and liked discussing things with each other were gradually replaced by people who didn't care about each other and mostly wanted to hear the sound of their own voice (figuratively speaking).

Also, I think there's been a strong secular trend across the internet away from discussion boards and toward Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and the like. I imagine that much of what people used to get from dedicated discussion fora now occurs on social networking sites.

I tend to agree with this.

There have been a few big, nasty arguments here over the years that drove many jatraqueros into lurking or away from the board entirely. Many discussion topics have been hashed and rehashed so many times over that they began to turn into trench warfare. And heck, everyone's a decade or so older than they were in the "golden age" and life has a way of moving on.

Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JonHecht:
I remember back before I was a member, this place was awesome. Now it's just full of the dregs, people like me who simply don't know when to just quit.

Oh, how I miss those wonderful days of old. I weep whenever the thought of the joyous time comes to mind as I know that it will never again return.

Its all YOUR FAULT.

Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SenojRetep:

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:

quote:
What has happened to you
I have already provided this information

i just don't know if there's any reason to rehash it
Personally, I think your diagnosis is wrong (if I remember it correctly, it largely had to do with ineffective moderation, inconsistent application of the ToS, and bad community practices).

That's not my diagnosis, but there's elements of that in it.

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :

I blame double posting. Sick demented double posting.

Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jeni:
Hello everyone I came back recently to check things out and was surprised to see that hardly anyone was left. Did you guys scare everyone else off?

Some of them did. Others just moved on. [Frown]

Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :

It's ok bro I'm back.

Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :

I still lurk but not as often as I used too, life got busy and its harder to give time to the board.

I'm afraid the Hatrack is suffering from "broken windows"

Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :

Meep

Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :

SenojRetep nailed it.

Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SenojRetep:
I think fundamentally what happened to Hatrack is that people who liked each other and liked discussing things with each other were gradually replaced by people who didn't care about each other and mostly wanted to hear the sound of their own voice (figuratively speaking).

While this is a correct description of what happened, it does nothing to explain why it happened? Why did those people who enjoyed respectful conversation leave?

quote:
Also, I think there's been a strong secular trend across the internet away from discussion boards and toward Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and the like. I imagine that much of what people used to get from dedicated discussion fora now occurs on social networking sites. [/QB]

Since many of those who were once hatrack regulars still participate regularly together in other nearly identical format forums, this seems a rather unlikely explanation for why they no longer participate here.

Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :

Perhaps board participation has dropped in direct proportion with the quality of OSC's writing?

Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
While this is a correct description of what happened, it does nothing to explain why it happened? Why did those people who enjoyed respectful conversation leave?

okay, fine, here we go again.

part of my post i keep recycling, from here:

quote:
Here, wanna hear some forum influx theory?

1. A forum's natural state is one of slow decline. Posters atrophy. Regular posters fall into lurking, or vanish from the site. This happens over the course of years. It is a gradual process. It is usually motivated by environmental changes ("I don't feel like I fit in at X anymore") or life changes ("I got a job."). Forums have need of replenishment to maintain activity.

2. Replenishment comes in the form of the forum's 'hook' that turns non-posters into posters. How do users find the site and decide to become posters? What common interests do they share? A forum becomes a demographic representative of the demographics that leech in through this hook. Active posting populations on the site will often transform over the years to mirror changes in the hook.

3. When large changes have occurred in a forum's overall demeanor over time, one usually ought to look at the hook. What has changed in it? In the case of Hatrack's changes, one need only look at which of those changes have been precipitated by changes in Orson Scott Card's demeanor and his notoriety. What kind of curious onlookers would OSC and his site bring in today as opposed to ten years ago?

4. Over the course of the years, the level of moderation in a highly political community, or any community which caters to a sub-population of people who are very zealous about their views, will determine the way in which the population will evolve. It tends to follow a pattern of Shrillness By Default. In any typical hatrack-like community undergoing potential change in tone, you will have a percentage of posters who prefer to (or will fall to) arguing in a 'shrill' fashion. You will also have people who prefer a chill, non-hostile community.

If you do not specifically curtail the 'shrill,' it will win every time.

More specifically, without action to curtail shrillness and hostility, the chill posters, the ones who want an environment of respectful debate, or the ones who have no interest in a hostile environment will slowly pack up and leave over time. To do nothing about it is to determine which side will win. Nothing was done for years, so the nondecision was made.

Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :

Funny. The answer to the thread title question played itself out right here.

What happens, what continues to happen, is that intellectual arrogance compels people to keep feeding trolls F***ING YEARS after they should have starved to death.

Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
Perhaps board participation has dropped in direct proportion with the quality of OSC's writing?

Eh, no. I liked Ender in Exile and Shadow's in Flight; though I can see why people would fine Empire terrible.

Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :

On a different note, what happened to all the older threads?

Edit: Nevermind, it seems the old threads reappeared when I logged in.

[ September 15, 2013, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Miro ]

Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:

quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
Perhaps board participation has dropped in direct proportion with the quality of OSC's writing?
Eh, no. I liked Ender in Exile and Shadow's in Flight; though I can see why people would fine Empire terrible.

That's fine. But I would like to point out that he hasn't had a novel win a major award since 1995 when Alvin Journeyman won the Locus. Almost everything he wrote before then won something. I realize awards are not the end all be all of importance or popularity but I suspect sales figures might back me up. Unfortunately I can't seem to find accurate data on that. Any search you do on the guy anymore just brings up articles on his anti-gay rants.

We have all read stories we enjoyed yet didn't find them moving enough to seek out the author's website, participate in his forums and consider ourselves a fan. I quite enjoyed the couple Chuck Wendig novels I read recently but I'm not following him on twitter. It takes a landmark work like Ender's Game or Speaker for that. Card hasn't written anything that resonant with a large chunk of people in many years. So people are following Brandon Sanderson or Patrick Rothfuss or John Scalzi now. The only reason I'm still hanging around is I really enjoy his reviews (which seem to be over now, quite a shame) and the discussion between people such as you, Samp and our good friend Sa'eed [Big Grin]

can be enjoyable.

Perhaps the movie will be a success and bring more people in but I kinda doubt it. Now you have to wade through a seemingly endless stream of political rambling to get to anything else of substance.