... has died. As someone said, it's sad to see him go, even at 95 years old. The world seems a little less bright. But it's also somehow rather wonderful that he died peacefully of old age - rare for someone in his line of work.
Awesome guy. He'll be missed.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Posted by iglee (Member # 12455) on :
The world may be "a little less bright" because of his death, but the world is brighter because of his life.
He'll be remembered.
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
He can't be replaced, but we were lucky to have him.
Posted by vineyarddawg (Member # 13007) on :
Every person can learn from the many examples of forgiveness and conciliation that Mandela gave us both during and after his tenure as President of South Africa. That goes double for those in comparable positions of power around the world.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of another example where the founder of a militant resistance group won his struggle, only to emphatically refuse to punish those of his oppressors that renounced their old ways and joined his "unity government." (Also, the fact that his "unity government" didn't actively discriminate against the ethic group that had, for decades, discriminated against virtually everyone else in his country.)
What happened in South Africa after apartheid ended was virtually a best-case scenario... and a very large part of the credit has to go to Nelson Mandela.
Posted by vineyarddawg (Member # 13007) on :
An interesting fact, as well: Nelson Mandela is the only person ever to be awarded both the Order of Lenin from the USSR and the Presidential Medal of Freedom from the USA.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
It is indeed a sad day.
People that say out that he was a murderer or was part of a "terrorist organization" are complete morons.
This was a man that stood up to oppressors and fought for what was right, and for the freedom of his people.
While I disagree with some of his political views, it doesn't diminish his accomplishments in promoting peace and equality.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:People that say out that he was a murderer or was part of a "terrorist organization" are complete morons.
He was a murderer and a part of a terrorist organization. He was also a hero.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:People that say out that he was a murderer or was part of a "terrorist organization" are complete morons.
He was a murderer and a part of a terrorist organization. He was also a hero.
You must be one of those complete morons I've heard about. Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:People that say out that he was a murderer or was part of a "terrorist organization" are complete morons.
He was a murderer and a part of a terrorist organization. He was also a hero.
You must be one of those complete morons I've heard about.
Was he a murderer? Asked sincerely; I don't know much about his time as a militant, and I don't know if any activities he engaged in at the time resulted in deaths, or whether those hypothetical deaths were of a nature that could reasonably considered "murder".
He was definitely a terrorist, though. And a hero. Although the reason he was a hero (IMO) had nothing to do with being a terrorist and everything to do with his life afterward.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
Here's a thought question:
Mandela vs. Castro vs. Mugabe
Why did a group of revolutionaries who started out so similar in intent and ideology end up in such different places w.r.t. their international stature? Was it all environmental differences? Or were there fundamental changes/adaptations in their individual approaches beyond just responding to local environmental factors?
Asked differently, did Castro and Mugabe become the despots they became because of their early success, and Mandela become the hero he was because of his failure? Or was there something more fundamental to the men all along that could have predicted the differences in outcome, despite the superficial similarities in their initial ideologies.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
Mandela had a blatant racial injustice going for him. We don't all recognize or sympathize with differences in religions or regional ethnicities but it's hard not to recognize apartheid as a shadow of a shameful chapter of our own history.
I'm sure there's more to it than that, but "white majority oppresses black minority" is a very simple message that resonates strongly.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Asked differently, did Castro and Mugabe become the despots they became because of their early success, and Mandela become the hero he was because of his failure?
I strongly suspect that this was a component. And as Matt notes, I suspect racial injustice helped produce a less repugnant "us vs. them" scenario than the ones that Castro and Mugabe leveraged on their way up.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I suspect that what outside powers were supporting them also was a factor.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think the failure aspect is most pronounced between Mugabe and Mandela, but I would say the other biggest factor is political organization. Mugabe had nothing like the ANC to act as a moderating influence once he got into power. When he took the reins, he had zero interest in making a new country work for everyone that was currently there. He instituted a much more radical redistribution of wealth and property that ended up impoverishing everyone and forced anyone with money to leave the country. If he'd spent time in the wilderness collecting his thoughts and really honing his beliefs and message, he might have had time to come to the realizations Mandela did. And for that matter, if he had a political, governing body behind him that was organized, thought out, and more or less professional, that would have made a huge difference too, I think.
Mandela came to power when the ANC won a national election. Mugabe came to power via force of arms. That might be the biggest factor in setting the course each of them took.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It's a quick read that poses some interesting perspectives on America's dichotomy of violence.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Is anyone else conspicuously weirded out by the spontaneous amnesia a bunch of our conservatives seem to be having on Mandela? They're lining up to admire him and call him an old bud but they're the same groups (sometimes even the same people) who wanted to keep the south african apartheid government propped up as a bulwark against communism and wanted mandela jailed.
And in order to praise him, they're whitewashing most of the important elements about what he did and reducing them to vague concepts that try to ignore that mandela was in opposition to them, their policies, and their ways.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
And not just praise him, but claim his mantle, as Rick Santorum has done.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
what ... the hell
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: And not just praise him, but claim his mantle, as Rick Santorum has done.
So when he is done fighting against Obamacare, and spends more than a decade in prison for it, he can begin phasing in universal health care.. Just like South Africa.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
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