My initial response was, "Don't really care." But after reading this I'm starting to warm to the idea.
Dude was racing drunk and under the influence of drugs. If he was a guest in my house I'd ask him to leave.
[ January 30, 2014, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
I really don't care about him one way or another but from some reports I have heard (you can't miss them) it sounds like this is getting blown out of proportion.
1. He blew a .011. That is not drunk. In fact, already known to be inaccurate breathalyzers are practically useless at such low levels.
2. He wasn't racing. Both cars were rentals, both had GPS trackers and both show neither driver went more than 4 mph over the speed limit all night.
That being said, it does sound like he was under the influence of pot and Zanax at the time. Still, calling it a drunken drag race seems quite inaccurate.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I kind of don't care, but I also think it's bizarre that he gets to stay while we're aggressively deporting tax payers who just want to make money picking avocados.
Posted by stilesbn (Member # 11809) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I kind of don't care, but I also think it's bizarre that he gets to stay while we're aggressively deporting tax payers who just want to make money picking avocados.
Are you under the impression that JB doesn't pay taxes?
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Well, I'm not saying he doesn't pay taxes, but I would wager that he doesn't know how.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Shouldn't it be fairly automatic? If the accusations and charges proceed to a conviction, I would have assumed that the visa would be revoked and he would be refused entry the next time he crosses back into the United States.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wingracer: I really don't care about him one way or another but from some reports I have heard (you can't miss them) it sounds like this is getting blown out of proportion.
1. He blew a .011. That is not drunk. In fact, already known to be inaccurate breathalyzers are practically useless at such low levels.
2. He wasn't racing. Both cars were rentals, both had GPS trackers and both show neither driver went more than 4 mph over the speed limit all night.
That being said, it does sound like he was under the influence of pot and Zanax at the time. Still, calling it a drunken drag race seems quite inaccurate.
For an underage drinker, .011 is still against the law. It doesn't matter if he blew a .011 or a .20, it is considered a DUI if you are under the legal drinking age.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Also from personal experience, A few beers when I was 19 was a lot more dangerous than a few beers at 25. After years of experience, you don't tend to get in that situation that's so typical of your teens and early twenties, not understanding the effects alcohol is having on your thinking and judgement. It's easy for me to say now what I can and can't reasonably do while drinking. At 19 that was impossible.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Justin Bieber has done a lot more than what he was arrested for, just not in the USA. Prostitutes, vandalism, animal abuse and public outbursts, seedy gossip site have said he's done it all. (seriously, look it up)
I like the idea of deporting him, because he's a rich, white dude from Canada who thinks he is above the law.
My understanding is that the INS can do pretty much whatever it wants and really really enjoys the fact that immigrants are at their mercy (I've heard stories). Despite what it says, the US is pretty prejudiced against people from certain countries, but great to others.
Wasn't there some German businessman who didn't have his papers in order who got arrested and the politicians basically had to admit the wrote the law for Mexicans? If not having your docs is bad, then it applies for everyone.
If you a white thug, people think you are young and dumb. If you a black thug, it's cool if Zimmerman shoots you. You were scary.
I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement. Or at least they were told and could repeat it back to you, just like every child in American knows that cigarettes are addictive and cause lung cancer. Somehow, people still smoke, and I'm sure no one who smokes doesn't know that. But since drinking is fun, they just willfully choose to ignore it until it actually hurts them enough that they decide to listen. After all, if doing dangerous things under the influence might hurt you 5% of the time, that's a lot, but you can fool around pretty often before something happens to you or someone you know. There are plenty of young people who get through their teen years, drink, but do not pull this kind of stuff, nor do they endanger other people, because they have sufficient imagination to realize that bad things can apply to them. They were smart children who will become smart adults. The others have learned the hard way about some things and have moved on, but there are new and different things to screw up in their 30s and 40s.
Bieber as a wee young lad, bragged about how Christian he was. If this religion really does teach morality, surely avoiding such things were part of his teachings. But no, the kid hasn't had anyone say no to him in a very long time. He's thinks that actions don't have consequences, not because he's a dumb 19 year old lacking in imagination with an "undeveloped brain", it's because he's learned from experience that if you have enough money, actions don't have consequences.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Would deporting him increase or decrease the chances of randomly encountering stories and pictures of him?
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote: My understanding is that the INS can do pretty much whatever it wants and really really enjoys the fact that immigrants are at their mercy (I've heard stories).
That's a pretty egregious allegation to make based off anecdotal evidence.
quote: If you a white thug, people think you are young and dumb. If you a black thug, it's cool if Zimmerman shoots you. You were scary.
I bet there would be a lot less protests if Justin Bieber got shot then Trayvon Martin.
quote: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement
quote: There are plenty of young people who get through their teen years, drink, but do not pull this kind of stuff, nor do they endanger other people
What kind of stuff are you referring to? As was pointed out, he had a .011 BAC and was driving 27 mph. I don't think that qualifies as endangering other people.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by stilesbn:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I kind of don't care, but I also think it's bizarre that he gets to stay while we're aggressively deporting tax payers who just want to make money picking avocados.
Are you under the impression that JB doesn't pay taxes?
I know he does, he's just a waste of space and flagrantly disregards the laws of the land he's a guest in.
To say nothing of being a poisonous lesion upon our media.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote: If you a white thug, people think you are young and dumb. If you a black thug, it's cool if Zimmerman shoots you. You were scary.
I bet there would be a lot less protests if Justin Bieber got shot then Trayvon Martin.
It's also a lot likelier the person who does it will be 1. arrested before there's a public outcry over the fact that a kid got shot and no charges were filed, even weeks later 2. it's a lot less likely whomever's doing it will get off.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement
quote: There are plenty of young people who get through their teen years, drink, but do not pull this kind of stuff, nor do they endanger other people
What kind of stuff are you referring to? As was pointed out, he had a .011 BAC and was driving 27 mph. I don't think that qualifies as endangering other people. [/QB]
Orincoro's post above mine.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: [QUOTE]For an underage drinker, .011 is still against the law. It doesn't matter if he blew a .011 or a .20, it is considered a DUI if you are under the legal drinking age.
Not in Florida, it's .02. Breathalyzers are very inaccurate at those low levels anyway. .011 could also be nothing.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement
quote: There are plenty of young people who get through their teen years, drink, but do not pull this kind of stuff, nor do they endanger other people
What kind of stuff are you referring to? As was pointed out, he had a .011 BAC and was driving 27 mph. I don't think that qualifies as endangering other people.
Orincoro's post above mine. [/QB]
This:
quote: It's easy for me to say now what I can and can't reasonably do while drinking. At 19 that was impossible.
Seems to contradict this:
quote: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
And pretty much that entire paragraph. I don't understand why you're referencing his post.
Posted by tertiaryadjunct (Member # 12989) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote: My understanding is that the INS can do pretty much whatever it wants and really really enjoys the fact that immigrants are at their mercy (I've heard stories).
That's a pretty egregious allegation to make based off anecdotal evidence.
You know what is reputation? Is people talking, is gossip...
Now for you, ICE reputation is not from gossip. You see this man? Ehh, he does not look white enough. I show you what ICE do with him, and now for you ICE reputation is fact. Is solid.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement
quote: There are plenty of young people who get through their teen years, drink, but do not pull this kind of stuff, nor do they endanger other people
What kind of stuff are you referring to? As was pointed out, he had a .011 BAC and was driving 27 mph. I don't think that qualifies as endangering other people.
Orincoro's post above mine.
This:
quote: It's easy for me to say now what I can and can't reasonably do while drinking. At 19 that was impossible.
Seems to contradict this:
quote: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
And pretty much that entire paragraph. I don't understand why you're referencing his post. [/QB]
Of course I'm contradicting what he's saying! I'm disagreeing! Orincoro's defending Bieber by stating that young people can't understand what they are doing, because their brains aren't formed and that's why young people drink can be especially dangerous.
I'm stating that young people have ample, repeated education about the dangers of alcohol, and if they haven't seen drunk people in person, they've seen them on TV and probably can guess that people who drink become impaired. Thus, I think Bieber should be held responsible for any offenses he has committed, and not written off due to his age. He's not a minor.
Let's try another analogy. Ever read Harry Potter 5? There's a scene where Harry journeys into Snape's memory and sees his father and his friend Sirius bully Snape when they were all 15. Upset, he returns to his time and confronts the now-grown Sirius about it, who says that 15 year olds are idiots. Harry replies that HE is 15, knows that kind of behavior is wrong and does not think that being 15 is an appropriate excuse for bullying.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
if justin bieber had brown skin and wasn't rich he would pretty much have been convicted and deported by now, especially with a centramericano name
~such is our way~
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
Said only as can be said with the mighty wisdom of those with no experience. This isn't the stupidest thing you've ever said, but it may be among the stupidest you say today.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: if justin bieber had brown skin and wasn't rich he would pretty much have been convicted and deported by now, especially with a centramericano name
~such is our way~
On the contrary, if he wasn't rich he wouldn't have been driving a lambo and wouldn't have been pulled over and in this mess to begin with.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
Said only as can be said with the mighty wisdom of those with no experience. This isn't the stupidest thing you've ever said, but it may be among the stupidest you say today.
Good god, man, I do think that point is pretty seriously wrong, but what the hell?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
Knowing that alcohol impairs a persons abilities, and judging how much your own abilities are impaired by consuming a given amount of alcohol are not the same thing.
Even when they aren't under the influence of alcohol or any other mind altering substance, young people have poor judgement because key areas of their brain aren't fully developed yet. Almost without exception, young people over estimate their own abilities and under estimate risk. That combined with a lack of experience makes under age drinking a deadly combination far too often.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
Said only as can be said with the mighty wisdom of those with no experience. This isn't the stupidest thing you've ever said, but it may be among the stupidest you say today.
Dude, come on.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: if justin bieber had brown skin and wasn't rich he would pretty much have been convicted and deported by now, especially with a centramericano name
~such is our way~
On the contrary, if he wasn't rich he wouldn't have been driving a lambo and wouldn't have been pulled over and in this mess to begin with.
To expand on the initial point, in the county I live in right now there's an immigration rights and defense lawyer I know who has pointed out that here immigration's policy for if an immigrant with a green card got arrested under circumstances mirroring bieber's misdeeds it would be the county's policy to automatically seek deportation as a matter of course, based off of his experience.
Unless they were (a) white and presented with good english skills, or (b) wealthy and/or well connected in some way. And he's got a lot of experience in these affairs.
Posted by Graeme (Member # 12543) on :
I don't think it would be fair. I mean, the guy hasn't even been convicted of any crimes yet.
Besides, Toronto has been through enough lately.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I am of the firm belief that young people know *exactly* what alcohol does to their judgement.
Said only as can be said with the mighty wisdom of those with no experience. This isn't the stupidest thing you've ever said, but it may be among the stupidest you say today.
Dude, come on.
Give me your keys?
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
quote:Originally posted by tertiaryadjunct:
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote: My understanding is that the INS can do pretty much whatever it wants and really really enjoys the fact that immigrants are at their mercy (I've heard stories).
That's a pretty egregious allegation to make based off anecdotal evidence.
You know what is reputation? Is people talking, is gossip...
Now for you, ICE reputation is not from gossip. You see this man? Ehh, he does not look white enough. I show you what ICE do with him, and now for you ICE reputation is fact. Is solid.
I have a very good friend that is in the final stages of becoming a citizen, she has to be very careful because until she is a citizen just about any illegal actions she does can have her deported. She has know people in the final stages of citizenship like herself, that were deported for as little as driving with an expired license.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
They definitely seemed to be holding a competition. If it was a deposition, the lawyer certainly turned it into an interview.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
As much as Bieber sounded like an immature child, that lawyer sounded like a complete bozo.
For someone who is unfamiliar with the legal process, what is the defendant's motivation to even show up, let alone answer questions, at a deposition? Why would you want to give your prosecutor any information to help him try to convict you when the trial begins?
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I like the idea of deporting him, because he's a rich, white dude from Canada who thinks he is above the law.
What is that "white" thing supposed to mean?
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I mean, what is the color supposed to suggest? That he doesn't like rich people who think they're above the law, and additionally he doesn't like him even more, because he's white? Or in case some of us did't know, he informed us that he is white so we can visualize him better in our heads?
Posted by DustinDopps (Member # 12640) on :
Gaal - As part of the legal process, both sides have to have the same information available to them before trial. The defendant *has* to show up to the deposition and answer questions, even if those answers are all "No comment" or "I don't know."
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Szymon: Still
I mean, what is the color supposed to suggest? That he doesn't like rich people who think they're above the law, and additionally he doesn't like him even more, because he's white? Or in case some of us did't know, he informed us that he is white so we can visualize him better in our heads?
Is "he" referring to me? ... I am a white female, FYI.
Posted by tertiaryadjunct (Member # 12989) on :
Thanks a lot, now I have to visualize a sex-change operation in my head.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
No need. Cis-female.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Sorry theamazeeaz, I didn't mean to insult you, I didn't know your sex.
So what did you mean by "white"? I mean, I am really curious. Was it in any way racist?
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Wow.
Szymon, this seems evident: - There's an apparent dichotomy among races in the US. There is a perception that rich, white people are granted leniency in the court system. - A case of this level of visibility would create certain perceptions in the media. High profile rulings have impact in the media and in other cases. If there was good evidence against Mr. Bieber and he was let go with a slap on the wrist, many citizens and members of the media would assert that it was because of privilege granted due to race and money. - Many of the same people would see a deportation as a sign that the justice system will prosecute fairly regardless of race, money, or power. - If you'll note any number of high profile cases, race is always a perception.
My guess is that by mentioning race, theamazeeaz purports that a decision by the justice system would impart a measure of impartiality. Wouldn't that be the opposite of racism? Why is it that every time someone brings up the topic of race, someone has to decry an accusation of racism. Racial relations are real. Only the ignorant ignore it as a significant factor. Isn't it as important as his money and celebrity to a ruling? ESPECIALLY in Florida?
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote:Originally posted by DustinDopps: Gaal - As part of the legal process, both sides have to have the same information available to them before trial. The defendant *has* to show up to the deposition and answer questions, even if those answers are all "No comment" or "I don't know."
Thanks.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, tell me if you think I'm way off. But could it be the prosecutor was purposefully trying to get those reactions out of Bieber to show him as a spoiled, condescending celebrity so that when the trial begins a jury has less, if any, sympathy for him? In other words, maybe it wasn't information he was looking for, it was the footage of him acting that way to get a leg up on the trial.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Thanks Aros. Ok, I get it. So what theamazeeaz means is that she is somehow frustrated with white rich people getting away with things, that other races don't get away with. A very famous, rich person, Justin Bieber, would make a good example, some kind of a precedent, if he was deported and not treated better because of his race and wealth, right? I am not being sarcastic in any way, it is just so new to me. Naive me thought that in a multicultural/multiracial nation of USA people in vast majority are color blind, because they're surrounded by different cultures/races on daily basis.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Compared to most other cultures, that's accurate, Syzmon. But most people here have no concept of what the experience of those other cultures might be like.
So they see correlations in some of the data on the American status quo and get Very Upset about them.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
I don't think many people will posit that we're "color blind" in the US.
When I left my sleepy town in Utah, I came to feel that it was much the opposite. I joined the military and found that racial prejudice is very much alive. It's a lot more prevalent in some places (Southern California, the South), but it's very much alive and well.
It's going to be a long time before we can set aside gender / racial / sexual biases. Until then, courts need to take these differences into account in their proceedings. Yes, this will sometimes create a bias against some people. But most people will argue that it warranted (to some extent) to counter general cultural bias and protect the rights of larger groups.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"It's going to be a long time before we can set aside gender / racial / sexual biases."
I disagree. Sexual orientation still has a long way to go, but most of the racists are aging. By the time my generation (twenty-somethings) are the establishment, I'll bet it'll be effectively gone. And I say effectively because obviously there will always be ignorant people but I've never met anyone my age that treats someone differently because of their race.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
It won't be gone. For one thing, at minimum we'll continue to get immigrants from more racist cultures (as Syzmon essentially alluded to), who will in turn take time/generations to change.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Like which cultures?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Most of them?
Eastern Europe, much of Asia and the Middle East, etc.
It'd be easier to name the cultures that are lessracist than us.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: "It's going to be a long time before we can set aside gender / racial / sexual biases."
I disagree. Sexual orientation still has a long way to go, but most of the racists are aging. By the time my generation (twenty-somethings) are the establishment, I'll bet it'll be effectively gone. And I say effectively because obviously there will always be ignorant people but I've never met anyone my age that treats someone differently because of their race.
I would have concurred with this statement based on living in Utah and Central California.
But since then, I've seen fairly racist attitudes among young people in Louisiana, San Diego, Mississippi, Denver, and Chicago. And I'm not just speaking about white racists. I've seen attitudes just as bad (or worse) among Latinos, black people, and people of Asian descent.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
And what behavior is considered racist? What I mean: I imagine there are black neighborhoods 80% where or more population is black. Crime rate is 300% of any other neighborhood in that given city. (I of course imagine that there most probably are white neighborhoods with 100% white population and twice that crime rate, it's just an example).
So in that city, when someone says: Mom, my boyfriend lives in Nameoftheneighborhood. Is it racist of her mother to be concerned?
Is it racist to hold your child closer and firmer when you see a group of black people on the corner in Nameoftheneighborhood, just standing there, doing nothing illegal?
Is it racist to ask a black person from that city: do you live in Nameoftheneighborhood?
Things like that. You get my point I hope. When most crimes are commited by persons from a certain racial group, and that's provable because there are statistics for that. Is any form of thinking like: "Mhm, he's black/white/asian, I should be a little more careful, it is possible he might be a criminal. I don't want to be rude, I just want to be safe" justified?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote:Originally posted by DustinDopps: Gaal - As part of the legal process, both sides have to have the same information available to them before trial. The defendant *has* to show up to the deposition and answer questions, even if those answers are all "No comment" or "I don't know."
Thanks.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, tell me if you think I'm way off. But could it be the prosecutor was purposefully trying to get those reactions out of Bieber to show him as a spoiled, condescending celebrity so that when the trial begins a jury has less, if any, sympathy for him? In other words, maybe it wasn't information he was looking for, it was the footage of him acting that way to get a leg up on the trial.
The jury is not necessarily privy to the taped deposition- that is rarely the case in my understanding. These are facts either stipulated to or ruled inadmissible to the court proceedings.
So for example, if the prosecutor asked Bieber, while deposing him, if he is cheating on his girlfriend, and Bieber said yes, that still doesn't mean the prosecutor gets to bring that information in front of the jury, as it is prejudicial, and not relevant to the case. The judge would rule on that before the jury ever heard the case. This is why, for example, it can happen that a jury decides a case not knowing many things about a defendant's life that might influence their decisions, because it is not deemed relevant to their judgement in the case before them. Then these things could later be brought in as part of the sentencing hearings.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Aros: I don't think many people will posit that we're "color blind" in the US.
Oh, on the contrary. I think many people would posit exactly this. However, most if not all of them would be mostly wrong, and most would not even realize why that is.
quote: And what behavior is considered racist? What I mean: I imagine there are black neighborhoods 80% where or more population is black. Crime rate is 300% of any other neighborhood in that given city. (I of course imagine that there most probably are white neighborhoods with 100% white population and twice that crime rate, it's just an example).
Don't get hung up on what "racism," means in this context.
The issue is that racist beliefs, the literal basis of racism, are logically fallacious arguments about the nature of people based on their ethnic, genetic predispositions. These understandings of how people are wired based on their race are demonstrably wrong. Black people are not predisposed to violence, nor, to that matter, to athleticism. Asians are not predisposed to good grades and bad driving, and white people are not predisposed to business acumen and democracy. These are fallacies of observation bias.
However, it is not fallacious reasoning that leads a person to fear the site of a black teenager in a high crime neighborhood. This is social conditioning, on the part btw, of both the observer *and* the observed party. The white person (or black person) who sees a black teenager in a high-crime neighborhood is conditioned to believe the teenager is dangerous. The teenager is likewise probably conditioned to be more dangerous than the average person. That is not a phenomenon that is engrained in race, but in economic and social systems that shape the experiences and behaviors of all involved.
And it's an important point to keep in mind: multiple studies of the phenomenon have shown that black police officers are about as likely as white police officers to profile black subjects as violent risks, and to be less likely to do so for white subjects. This is evidence of powerful social conditioning, as even black officers who are members of black communities are still likely to be more vigilant of black people than white people. This is a product of media, films, television, and culture in general. It is reinforced by itself: perceptions of black people as violent and dangerous lead to social ostracism and only exacerbate the alienation from mainstream society that black people experience, leading to reinforcement of the stereotype. S
ociety, in many subtle and not-so-subtle ways, enforces its perceptions of people by demanding that they act in their assigned roles. Transgression from those roles is often met with subtle criticism, from within and without- a black person who "acts white," is a race-traitor to black people, and a poseur to white people. Just think about the endless suspicion of Barack Obama by hard-core conservatives. There's a deep suspicion of a black person who transgresses "his place," in society by rising higher than expected.
So, in sum: racism is believing that neighborhoods are high-crime *because* black people live in them. The fact that they are black being the basis of the belief. Not-racism is believing that a black neighborhood is more dangerous, because it probably is. While this latter form of non-racism is still *prejudice,* it is not necessarily prejudice based on fallacious reasoning.
[ March 14, 2014, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by DustinDopps (Member # 12640) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Thanks.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, tell me if you think I'm way off. But could it be the prosecutor was purposefully trying to get those reactions out of Bieber to show him as a spoiled, condescending celebrity so that when the trial begins a jury has less, if any, sympathy for him? In other words, maybe it wasn't information he was looking for, it was the footage of him acting that way to get a leg up on the trial.
As Orincoro said, the deposition isn't usually used as evidence in the trial. It's sort of a fishing expedition for the attorneys.
I didn't get the impression that the attorney was trying to make Bieber look bad. He was asking some pretty basic questions and Bieber was ridiculing him for it and being highly uncooperative.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :