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Originally posted by Parkour:
I like how the cut-off title implies that you knew so much you died before you could finish writing the thread.

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Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
So...one could educate oneself up to genius level...

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Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
... and then stop learning...and live forever?

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The way I understand it, Bean's body would still age, at best, at the rate any human body would...

But that aside, for the sake of this thought experiment, let's assume you'd decide to "stop learning":
But it's not that easy. You'd have to consciously deprive yourself of all information, especially since the more you know, the more complex your thought processes would be (arguably).
I would not be surprised (hypothetically) to find Bean on some such island as described above just to have his mind predicting the probability of lighting strikes based on the look of the sky, or calculating the movement of the stars, thereby determining which "spots of light" had to be planets, and - by knowing the build of our galaxy - deducing from the paths of those that are not stars exactly which planets they had to be... Also, there'd be water spinning in the sink, or fruit falling from trees...

So that leaves you with the option of living inside an enclosed room, which would slow down your learning - but not stop it either, for this still leaves your mind free, highly educated and complex at that point, to futilely speculate as we are doing here, or to sustain yourself by replaying memories as Petra did, or even to come to conclusions based on facts you knew but had not analysed in depth before, or had not combined to see the connection, and so forth.

Then, theoretically, to stop learning you would have to put yourself in a coma, and a deep one too, effectively blocking all information from getting to your brain. This should stop learning, and you might virtually live forever.
 

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Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Or you could have kids...I'm fairly certain I haven't learned anything new since their birth
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
I am fairly certain you learn a helluva lot of new things when you have children! So that won't gain you eternal life either. (Or rather, it kinda might, but not literally...)

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Also, congratulations on your 6000th post. Will there be a "landmark"?
 

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Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Thank you! I landed my mark at 1k or so...should be in the archives.

ETA: Here it is http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/main/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=058224;p=1#000000

Sure...you learn a lot of things...how little sleep you actually need, how to get vomit out of laundry, how to turn off your brain & ears and just stare soullessly into air as your last shred of humanity is systematically stripped away by inccesent, loud, over lapping, high pitched irrelevant comments/questions/songs.

[ June 07, 2016, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Stone_Wolf_ ]
 

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Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
Also, welcome to hatrack.
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
Thank you. I appreciate it.

From the landmark you seemed to be quite content with having children at the time. And Winter is such a lovely name! Is she in school yet? I hope all of you are doing well.

And it is fascinating to read about how Ender's Game really changed you. When I read the book it felt, in a way, like coming home to myself, and I loved it for that reason. But it has done much more for you!
 

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Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
She graduated from preschool today.

She reads at a third grade level.

She is a whole head taller than everyone in her class

I'm so proud of her!

She basically acts like a 25 year old mist of the time.

The rub lies in that sometimes she remembers to be 5...usually bursting into tears & refusing to talk...at random things.

It's the hardest & best thing I've ever done and if being a good father & husband is all I ever achieve in this life I'll die a happy man.
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
That sounds like you have every reason to be proud of her!

And the choice of what you value in her takes you a huge step toward being a good father in my eyes.
 

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Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
 
I believe that the most useful parameter for judging parents is, "generational improvement"...did they do better than their parents?

For instance...my mother in law is bat shit nut balls.

But for good reason.

So even tho the only thing she does consistently in my wife's life is start blow ups...she still passes bc her parents were God damned monsters.

True story.

From reading my landmark you kno I...have criticisms of my parents...but they pass muster too.

I guess I'll just wait til my daughter hits puberty and see how I do.
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by PanaceaSanans:
Sister Carlotta writes that the uninhibited replication of brain cells in Bean is what will ultimately cost his life, for - as with (highly differentiated) cancer - the "growth" will reform it's surroundings by the prime directive of accommodating it's own needs and thereby make more room, and make more height and mass to sustain it (until eventually the base structures can no longer fulfill their aggravated purpose and thus the growth will necrotize).

Now, I don't know whether this will come up in the actual books, but a possible conclusion may be that if Bean deliberately slowed down his learning, and there were no further incentive for brain cells to replicate, that would lengthen his life expectancy considerably. (Which is precisely what some chemo-therapeutics do: Taking away or blocking growth stimulating factors.)

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So, as mentioned elsewhere, I recently finished "Shadows in Flight".

And I'm wondering: How has this not even come up as an idea in the books? Especially with the whole "Bean is not hungry to rule"-thing... Have I misunderstood the supposed pathophysiology of Bean's Syndrome?
 

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Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
 
Mr. Card is a highly religious man, who wrote this coming from the mouth of a highly religious character. The character is putting forward a scientific explanation for the fall of man.

Adam and Eve stood in the Garden of Eden. They were immortal. Then they ate from the fruit of the tree of Knowledge (of good and evil). This caused them to lose that immortality.

In other words, like Bean, they could have remained ignorant by living in paradise, but chose knowledge and death.
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
But especially in this light I would have expected Card to use those parallels and actually let Bean MAKE this choice...
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
For my part, I argued vociferously at the time that Bean should have grown into a giant, pulsating mass of brain tissue occupying the middle of the ship, over which his babies might crawl while growing to adulthood. And then, years after landing on a planet, they'd become the descoladores and send out spores of their semi-sentient father.
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
Volescu proposed that, didn't he?

Ah, yes, I found it:

quote:

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Originally spoken by Volescu, written by OSC:
You'd live for years, tied to the walls of the ship like a balloon. An enormous Gulliver. Your wife could come visit you. And if you get too big, well, there's always amputation. You could become a being of pure mind. Fed intravenously, what need would you have of belly and bowels? Eventually, all you really need is your brain and spine, and they need never die. A mind eternally growing. [...] to me, you're beautiful. Even tethered to an artificial habitat, even limbless, trunkless, voiceless, you'd be the most beautiful creature alive."

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To say the least, I was stupefied with conflicting emotions of horror and longing...
 

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Posted by Jacare_Sorridente (Member # 13443) on :
 
since ignorance is bliss how could anyone refuse an eternity of joyful non-thinking? It is just because you hairless apes have evolved such big brains that you think they are so great. If you had evolved massive crushing jaws instead you would be discussing how your huge jaws make you the apex of all creation
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
Hush, Krokodil. Go back to your wildebeests.
 

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Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
I mean when we invent language and spears and stuff and then agriculture and machine guns and space ships and we can drain the swamps of the jaw-havers and mount their jaws on the wall because they did nothing past having big jaws

Id say yeah, the brains part was the way to go
 

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Posted by PanaceaSanans (Member # 13395) on :
 
Samp

I always wondered, though. We so readily claim that our intelligence is what makes the individual(!) human more "worthy" than any animal. But I for my part doubt I could have invented machine guns or space ships or even the light bulb...

So language, really, I think that is the greatest achievement (and I am glad you mentioned it, because it is sometimes overseen), and writing/ the printing press, because only those allowed the human race to become what it is in spite of the aforementioned lack of individual brilliance.
 

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