I'm currently working on this fantasy story and when the story opens the main character is a hopless drunk and totaly unlikeable. I don't want to start the story from the point where I would have to explain how he got this way because it take away from my character arc. I plan on telling the backstory through flashbacks,which seem to fit pretty seamlessly throughout the story. But they would appear seamless to me since I'm the one writing the story and all writers are egomaniacs. It isn't hard to coming up with scenarios for these flash backs to occurr either since the character is always passing out in a puddle of his own vomit. I think I can pull it off without boring the reader and the whole backstory isn't going to be told through these flashbacks. A lot of it will be explained through the reaction of those around him, and the backstory will actually come to a climax when he shares a tender moment with the female protagonist. I once had this writing teacher who basically told me flashbacks were the source of all tat was evil. It something that has stuck with me even though while I appreciated the "A" I had no respect for this guys opinion. But even though I don't know many of the people on the BB I was however interested in your opinion. Are flashbacks a nessacary (I could never spell that word) evil or not? JOHN
Posted by Skolovic (Member # 1341) on :
Personaly, I think flashbacks are necessary, but they should be short and to the point unless it is needed that they be long. I find it hard to incorporate flashbacks without getting too lengthy, I seem to want to explain everything, but that is not good. Just my opinion.
Posted by JOHN (Member # 1343) on :
That was basically my line of thought. The way I plan on setting it up is the flashbacks, durken hallucinations, and visions are all going to tell another story. If I can pull off the way I want to it will be a story wihin a story. I would almost be able take the flashbacks out and they could stand alone as a prequel. Although the main story wouldn't make much sense without them, but you get my point.
JOHN
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
First of all, flashbacks interrupt the natural flow (chronological order) of the story, and stop things while the author explains things to the reader that the author couldn't figure out how to weave into the story any other way.
Second, if the material you want to put into a flashback is important enough to include it, why not just start the story back then?
You have to have a really good reason for doing things differently from the most natural way, which in this case is chronological order.
If you think you have really good reasons, then go ahead and put in the flashbacks.
But be sure you have those really good reasons.
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
I find nothing wrong with flashbacks, provided their necessary. If what you want to show can be shown through the 'present' story-line, don't do flashbacks. If you're flashback-ing to show some neat bit of character history, don't do flashbacks. If you're flashback-ing to show some vital event, or deepening the character, do flashbacks. It's all black and white to a man who can't see colour *grin*. JK
Posted by Cosmi (Member # 1252) on :
i find flashbacks infuriating--in a good sort of way. if the flashback story is interesting, it keeps me hooked (sort of like books that hop between two chronologically-concurrent storylines) and i have a hard time finding a stopping point. hence the infuriating.
TTFN & lol
Cosmi
Posted by JOHN (Member # 1343) on :
This doesn't just pertain to my story but to stories I've read as well. It's basically what I'm trying to avoid. I hate when a group of characters splits up and you constantly moving back and forth. An example of this is The Sword of Truth series. I don't about anyone else who has read these books but the main reason I read them is becuase of the relationship between Richard and Kahlan, which is probaly the biggest element of fantasy in those stories. When the author decides to split these chracters up I constanly find myself skimming forward to see how many more pages I have to endure before the two reunite. The same is true when the author decides to tell the story through the POV of a supporting character who is on a separate quest which isn't half as interesting as the main story. I don't want the flashbacks I have planned to come off this way, which why I intend to keep them short and as interesting a possible. The main character is such a piece of crap in the begining of the story it's fun to follow him around and see what kind of trouble he gets into I think the same holds true for the flashbacks. The fact that he's fairly unlikeable in the present makes the flashbacks enjoyable or at least bearable because you see him when he was younger and somewhat heroic.
JOHN
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Whoa, I'm tripping here.
Look, any time that your viewpoint character remembers something, 'tis a flashback, in my opinion. I consider it to be perfectly acceptable for the character to remember things that happen prior to the opening scene of the book, and to dwell on them at whatever length and degree of introspection comes naturally to that character.
If your character is in the habit of getting sloppy drunk and thinking about the good ol' days, then let him do it. It's completely in character (it might also be completely in character to be less honest with himself when he's drunk, that's a commen thing with many drug addictions--as is the ability to stand more honest introspection--both are reasons people drink).
But avoid flashbacks that break the character's POV. I don't get the idea that you are doing that from what I see here, but it's the one thing that always makes a flashback a bad idea. I think that's what everyone's complaining against. I regard POV violation as less than a cardinal sin, but it certainly arouses your audience to question the story you're trying to present.
There is one thing that I have a problem with. From what you've said, "the flashbacks, durken hallucinations, and visions are all going to tell another story." What I hope is that the story they tell is stronly related to, and has an immediate impact on, the story that you are telling. If they don't have anything to do with the current story, leave them out (it's totally in character for most people to eat, breath, and eliminate, but I wouldn't bother going into that either in greater detail than the story needs), or gloss over them (i.e. "He spent the rest of that night in the drunken but still painful memories of a life long past"). If the memories aren't a part of the main story, I don't want to be bothered.
Posted by cvgurau (Member # 1345) on :
Personally, I've rarely used flashbacks, if ever, but I've read some excellent stories that have them, although no names come to mind.
If the flashbacks help to define the character, give you a better sense of the man you're trying to describe, then go for it. But if all they do is complicate the story and confuse the reader, then you're better off without them.
Posted by JOHN (Member # 1343) on :
Okay, let me break it down and get rid of some of the confusion. Two things before I do. I really hope no one takes this as me posting an actually story, and I'm really stripping the plot down to keep it short, so forgive me if it sounds incredibly trite. Anyway, the main jist of the story is this:
We first meet Johan (yeah, yeah, read my post on another thread about my writing being ecaspism---like I said, it doesn't take Freud...) he's in a taveren drinking by himself and he's been there all day. The flashbacks I'm referring to are of the days when Johan was in the Queen's Guard, an elite part of the army who are the Queen's personal protectors. The flashbacks come and go. The Queen of course is the stereotypical blonde haired blue eyed fairy princess. We follow the flashbacks and Johan and the Queen's relationship and they of course fall in love, and have a seceret relationship. The Queen is murdered somehow or another and Johan blames himself and so does the rest of the country. Johan is never brought up on charges because he abandons the Queen's guard, and goes from town to town living as a recluse, sleeping in gutters and what not. I want it to seem like Johan and the Queen's romance is the actual story, even though it's told through flashback, until I introduce the actual female protagonist, a princess from a far off land. From the description I plan on giving it would be hard to imagine the princess as anything, but an African-American women (and almost identical to a women who I've been pinning over for the last six months). She is the exact opposite of the stereotypical fantasy heroine. Now this is probably when a lot of the flashbacks will stop. I will allude to the fate of the Queen throughout the story. There will be those we realize who Johan is since he's a wanted man and was fairly famous before the Queen died. But the story of the Queen's death will only be told in a tender moment shared between Johan and the princess. That's the Reader's Digest version. Like I said it sound fairly trite and it's actually a lot more involved. I really hope I didn't break any rules by leaving such a long post, but if you read it fast it's really not that long --I hate those smiley faces. Thanks for listening--don't kick me off---I'll be good I promise.
JOHN!
Posted by Bardos (Member # 1260) on :
Use flashback only when there is a reall reason for them.
I've seen authors cut the story and give as a 5 (or even 10!) page flashback. Gods! This is boring (usually). It's better to explain things as they come up in your story than trying to explain them all in some pages, as "character thoughts". Small chance actually that the character would be thinking his/her background and not the imidiate problem s/he is facing right now.
I have created whole backgrounds for characters that I have never mentioned or mentioned in a very sort, matter-of-fact way. I think this gives realism; a kind of "it exist". I mean you don't think all day how you began your life. But, when something important about your past comes up, then you remember it, and usually, talk about it with someone. So. Dialogue --*natural* dialogu-- is better to give information to the reader than 10 pages of thoughts.
Posted by Cosmi (Member # 1252) on :
i like your basic idea, John, but may i suggest? keep the flashbacks going at the same frequency throughout the story. i hate it when i'm reading a good book and suddenly its whole style changes. it actully happens pretty often in longer works--if you listen (read?) carefully--and it gets on my nerves. its like the author is wrapping things up and shipping out two-thirds through a tale s/he had to go and get me interested in!
maybe if the drunkeness ends after he meets this princess, he still has nightmares because of his guilt for/fear of associating with another princess? something like that to keep the flashbacks coming?
jmho
TTFN & lol
Cosmi
Posted by JOHN (Member # 1343) on :
Thanks Cosmi someone finally told me what I wanted to hear. Yeah, there'll still be some flashbacks when he meets the princess, and other references
--I hate those smiley faces. Thanks for listening--don't kick me off---I'll be good I promise.