here's one----if yur story is first person can your synop be first person?
Shawn
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
I'd say no. Mr Editor wants a quick run-down of the story, and adopting first person would make it seem literary, which is precisely what Mr Editor doesn't want. JK
Posted by JeremyMc (Member # 1400) on :
I'd agree. Mr. Editor (or one of his overworked, exhausted volunteer assistants) doesn't have time to recognize your brilliance and originality. Just a quick rundown so he can chuck it or throw it in the slushpile (so someone else can find it in a few months and send you a cryptic response).
Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :
Well, this one is for a requested material one--I redid it in first person then changed it to third, that seemed to breath some life into the flat thing.
Thanks, Shawm
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Good idea, Shawn.
In fact, it's an exercise I'd recommend to all writers--write a story in first person and then change it to third person.
You'll have the "immediacy" feel of first person, with the apparent distance of third person.
And you really will breathe some extra life into the story.
Posted by JeremyMc (Member # 1400) on :
That is a good idea. I'll have to try that.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 970) on :
I did that with the first four chapters of my current project, mostly because the first person was driving me crazy. the only problem I have is that you can tell where i stopped writing in first person and started writing in third person. it's certainly a way to get into a character's head, though.
Ni!
Posted by uberslacker2 (Member # 1397) on :
It really is. Even though the friends that read my current project (one of them at least) liked the first-person I was starting to notice problems. Then I sort of spread it around and the first thing I got back was, "Why is this in first-person." It was a fun excersize but when I expand it to novel length I'm rewriting the whole thing in third. It really does let you get into the characters head though. I feel like I've got two people living in me now. Jonathan (the me I've known forever) and Michael (the amnesiac Dune Runnner {similar to SK's gunslinger}. It's quite a crazy feeling.
The Great Uberslacker
Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :
Well, my last novel is in first person and it turned out very well. So when it came to the synop I tried it in first person and it helped me get past the "flat" synop problem. I think. I have a few friends and crit partners looking at it now. Believe me they are the don't spare the red ink kinda people which are the only type of critters to have if you ask me.
The only problem is that waiting to send out a requested synop and partial drives one batty.
Shawn
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
I have a quick question of my own, actually, although it's not big enough to deserve it's own thread. We send off Mr Manuscript to Mr Editor (everything's Mr at the moment, isn't it? *grin*). Fine and dandy. Let's assume Mr Editor loves it all and wants to publish it. Great. Question: when does all that fluffy stuff get added in (i.e. acknowledgements, dedication, About the Author, and all the rest)? JK
Posted by JOHN (Member # 1343) on :
I would thinkg that stuff is put in after the author and editor work out any changes that need to be made and the book is ready to ship to the printers. That' just my guess however.
I have a synop question of my own...
How detailed should the synopsis be? Are we talking something that you would read on the back of a puplished book or something closer to an outline. I'm sure the editor doesn't want you to try and bait him into asking for the rest of you manuscript, but what when you give the bare bones of your novel it sounds kind of stupid or there's minor plot points you wnat to mention? I also heard it should be about a page long in manuscript form---is this correct?
JOHN!!
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
I've heard that Mr Editor enjoys a one sided synop, since it looks like a lot less to deal with. This is perhaps why I've had synops described to me as excercises in being concise; if you want to fit in all the fun and juicy stuff, you really have to squeeze words dry to get the most out of them. I've also been told that some Editors like a blurb, since that gives them an idea of how they'd market the story. Sneakier writers have also suggested that good blurbs hook Mr Editor as much as any reader, so they'd be a little more likely to want to see the rest of the manuscript. JK
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
A synopsis should tell what happens in the story, from beginning to end. The editor needs to know the ending in order to know that you actually came up with a decent one.
Synopses (or outlines, as they are also called when included in "partials") can be four to five pages long.
The best explanation of how to write a synopsis that I've ever heard goes basically like so:
A paragraph on how the story begins, a paragraph each on the major turning points or plot twists, and a paragraph on the resolution (and the end, if it comes after the resolution).
Then a sentence added to all paragraphs after the first one for transition.
You don't need to worry about characterization, or description of the setting or anything else in the story. You just need to worry about what happens.
The rest of the "partial" is the first three chapters or the first 20 or so pages, so the editor can see how you do characterization and description and so on.
Dedications, acknowledgments, and so on can be submitted with the book if you've published with that editor before. If not, you can ask the editor about them when you discuss the manuscript (best to take care of this kind of thing before the galley stage).
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited May 18, 2002).]
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
To our rescue comes the fountain of knowledge that is Kathleen! That was very illuminating. I just have one question: What's a galley stage? JK
Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :
I ended up with 9 pages. But I found a web site of the agents and she states on that web site that the synop should be less than 10 pages---whew, I am ok. I am also going on what Lori Perkins recommends in her book “The Insiders Guide to Getting an Agent.”
This is the worst one I have ever done. Could have pulled my hair out and gone insane writing it. Big name agency, expressing much interest---and the old one I had for the same book, sucked sewer water.
With the help of my crit group, formally group 6 here, and a writer friend (who never read more than three chapters of the book), and my editor at the magazine I write for, I will have a great synop and maybe, just maybe, make that agent step.
Shawn
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Best of luck, Shawn.
Sorry, JK, that wasn't very clear of me.
The galley stage is the stage when the manuscript is printed up in book form for finally proofreading. This book form is called a "galley." You need to have your dedication page, your acknowledgment page, and any other things you may want in the book besides the actual text all worked out before the galleys are printed.
Once a book gets into galleys, it's very hard (and expensive) to make major changes, which is why an editor will discuss the manuscript with the author and make sure everything is the way it needs to be in the text and on the additional pages first.
If you've ever seen a "paperback" edition of a hardback book that has "uncorrected proof" written on the cover, that's an example of a galley. Sometimes, libraries will have those for people to check out while they are waiting for the official hardcover edition to arrive, but they are not supposed to be sold as the actual book. They're for reviewers and other people who need to see the book before the public gets to.
I hope that helps.
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
Aha. Thanks Kathleen. You learn something new every day. Unfortunately. JK
Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :
Ok here is another question. Should a synop be double or single spaced? I recived another request for a partial, this one stating a synop, single spaced. So is there a page limit to the single spaced sort? If I single spaced my current one that would make it about 4 1/2 pages long. Too long to go single spaced?
Hmmm---
Shawn
Playing in the scary unknown (hmm why don't I go look this up in my formatting book--like duh, but every agent seems to have their own set of rules when it comes to synops!)
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Manuscripts are double-spaced because it makes editing easier and it makes typesetting easier.
Your synopsis isn't going to be edited by the editor, nor is it going to be typeset, so single-spacing it is fine.
Double-spacing a synopsis is okay, too, but if you ask editors and agents, they'll most likely say to single-space it.
Four and a half pages single-spaced is just right.
Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :
Thanks Kathleen.
Shawn
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
Leave it to Mr JK to resurrect a thread. Those of you reading through this thread will have noticed the question Shawn asked and then noticed my own response. I want to reask the question (i.e. Can your synopsis be in first person?) How bizarre! JK already gave his answer, so doesn't he know? The answer is: no. I said Mr Editor wanted a quick run-down of your story. What if Mr Author is lacking in credentials, though, and uses the synop to tell the story as if the POV character is related the tale quickly to someone else? Would that be acceptable? I'm sceptical myself, but it'd be fun if it could be done. JK
Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :
Ok--was typing alopng and my window went away, no idea---JK I asked an agent this, and the answer I got was that it must be present tense, all knowing. Why? I asked.
The reason made sense---in first person yu can not tell the reader (the agent or editor) what all the characters motivations are. So in other words you are leaving out needed info.
I use a short bio for each character to start with giving a brief scketch of their motivations, so now I see why it can't be done because told first person from the main characters POV that character wouldn't know everything that needs to be said.
The exception, if you were telling biography of yourself say.
The other thign the agent said, rules can be broken as long as you know what the rules are to start with---
Shawn
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
Yeah, alright. After I posted this I started to think it wasn't such a hot idea. JK
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I suspect that even if you could write a good synopsis in first person, an editor would be put off by it (unless you and the editor were friends, and in that case, you'd just pitch a proposal in person).
An unconventional synopsis, even if well-written, is going to come off as a waste of writing effort at best and too cute/coy/clever/contrived/affected/whatever for words at worst.
The synopsis is a tool. It doesn't need ornamentation.
Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :
Alright, people, now there's no need to stamp on a bad idea. A quick kick, it'll roll over and die, no worries *grin* JK