Hatrack River Writers Workshop: The Novel Approach

This is topic The Novel Approach in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Phanto (Member # 1619) on :

We here at hatrack are all focused on the hook. Some have countered, saying that they give novels 20 pages before dropping.

My question is: How do novels get sold? Is it based on some people buying it at random, then recommending it? How do novels become highly regarded?

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I give novels about three (3) pages. I don't look for a 'hook', I look to see if the author has any idea how to write.

If the author knows how to write, I keep reading. If, on the other hand, there is a significant 'hook' which appears in the first three pages, I will keep reading whether or not the author knows how to write. If the author then drops the 'hook' (i.e. reveals that the 'hook' has nothing to do with the story), I'll throw the book away no matter how close I am to the end.

I give a short story about a page, and unless it is really awful, I'll read the whole thing.

Clearly, I only read novels based on these criteria. To actually buy a novel, I read the first few pages, and if they are exceptionally well written and have a hook, I might buy the book.

Hey, I'm evil

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

I buy novels based on:

1. Having liked other novels by the author
2. Recommendations from relatives or friends with similar tastes
3. Reading the teaser on the back of the book
4. Reading the reviews & customer comments on Amazon.com

I'm a very plot-oriented reader, so as long as the premise intrigues me, I'm willing to buy the book. The first few pages generally don't give me as much info about the premise as the teaser, so I almost never bother to read them before buying.

I guess I'm just generally trusting editors to ensure a minimal acceptable level of writing competency.

I get burned more often buying books by well-known authors who are "phoning it in" than by picking up new authors based on the back of the book.

Posted by Balthasar (Member # 5399) on :

How are novels sold? Well, I presume that when editors read manuscripts they like, they buy them. What exactly is the question?

I'm far more magnanimous than Survivor. I give a novel 50 pages or 10%, whichever is longer, before putting it down. So, for a 250-page novel, I give it fifty pages; for a 1100-page novel, I give is 110 pages. After that, I'll put a novel down for any number of reasons -- a banal plot, bad prose that finally irritated the hell out of me, boredom, etc. But I feel I need to at least give a writer a sufficient chance.

A practice I do have, however, is for every novel I put down I have to write at two or three paragraphs on why I put it down. This is to help me understand my own tastes a little better as well as help me understand why the book failed for me. In the case of bad prose, I try to analyze why the prose irritated me so much that I finally stopped reading. In the case of a banal plot, I try to figure out when the author left me and why. The goal is to help me write better stories.

Buying novels for me is a little different. I live in the Dallas, TX, area, home of Half-Price Books, and so I buy most of my novels used (I rarely, if ever, buy new novels). Those I want to read again, I keep. Those I don't, I give to a local PTA when they're having their yearly book fair (paperbacks, 50 cents; hardbacks, $1 ).

PS -- Since Survivor brought up the short-story issue, I'm pretty much in line with him. I finish almost every short story I begin unless it is completely detestable.

[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited March 03, 2004).]

Posted by JBShearer (Member # 9434) on :

I'll tell you, I'll finish about anything that is written competently, and so will a lot of other people.

Honestly, Robert Jordan is a good example. The beginning of his Wheel of Time series? Sheesh. It seriously takes more than 200-250 pages to begin getting interesting, and he has a HUGE following. His stuff is slow, boring, but incredibly well written. Don't get me wrong, I love his books, but sometimes they're more boring than . . . something really boring that fell asleep.

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

quote:
something really boring that fell asleep

I literally laughed out loud at that. And I mean "literally" literally.

Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :

I would venture to guess that if a story is inventive and well written. It will be well recieved. I also would go as far as to say that a writer needs a good team of people backing him/her up (not being a published writer and all). Just because a book gets published doesn't mean it is going to sell well. Alot of planning and marketing needs to happen, so people know that it is available and that it doesn't suck!

It only takes one reader to bring something to the best seller list. I am kinda realating this to the Chaos theory(?), you know, a butterfly flaps its wings and causes a monsoon, (something like that).
Take a look at JK Rowling, after her first book, she was involved in a media/marketing circus. I would say that any publicity would have to be good when you first get started.

As far as how much I read before putting a book down, well... I am more forgiving than most. I read "The Phoenix Guard" by Steven Brust a bunch of years ago and threatened to put it down several times. I got about 2/3rds of the way done and fininshed it just because of the time I invested in it, out of spite I guess? I am reading "Quicksilver" by Neal Stephenson right now. I like his writing, but I am having some difficulty getting attached to the story. I had a similar problem with The Wheel of Time series. I was addicted after I got through the first half of the first book, and haven't stopped reading them since. Robert Jordan is The KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN of Fantasy Fiction. It is addicting and you'll crave it fortnightly (to quote Mike Myers).

Posted by pickled shuttlecock (Member # 1714) on :

"I love his books, but sometimes they're more boring than . . . something really boring that fell asleep."

I dunno...usually I find boring people to be considerably less so when they're unconscious.

Not that I've forced that state upon any of them or anything...

Posted by srhowen (Member # 462) on :

I read the first page or so, skip to the middle read another few pages then read the end pages--on new books unless they are by an author on my list who has already made it past this test.

On used books, I go on Thur. to the used book store when they are 2/3 off. Then I am less fussy, I'll read the back cover and say Okay, this sounds good.

Most times I finish a book--it has to be pretty bad for me not to.(end of sentence preposition--me bad) A writer can learn from even bad fiction--how not to do it. I used to get out a red pen and mark the heck out of such books.

Then there have been books that were so bad I could not make it through them even when I tried to force myself too as a editing exercise--I would have used an entire box of red pens and then some.

Covers sell books to a lot of people, though I have never been much of a buy it cause I liked the cover person. Though, I may pick up a book and put it to my read test based on a cover that catches my eye.

Shawn

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I'm afraid a novel doesn't have to be all that bad for me to stop reading it. Sometimes I stop reading it because I'm not in the mood for that book now. I great example is a series by Piers Anthony that I picked up: essentially a fascinating take on the history of the world told through the eyes of two characters who kept appearing in every new generation. It was actually quite clever, but unfortuntaely when I picked it up I was looking for a Piers Anthony novel, you know, not too much thought required.

On the other hand, I do have it on my to read list when the mood strikes me so maybe it's not the greatest example, but it is something to consider. I have walked away from good movies quite disappointed because they were not as advertised and never liked them, not really.

Posted by RillSoji (Member # 1920) on :

Since I don't have a whole lot of time to devote to reading anymore *cry* I like to read books that my friends and family have recommended.

That doesn't keep me from picking out a couple books at the library and reading the first few pages of them every once in a while. First, I check to see if any of my favorite authors have new books out. If not then I go to the general sci-fi fantasy section and start examining book bindings. If the name, author or picture stands out I pull it out and read the back cover or inside flaps. If I'm still interested then I read the first page. If it passes that test and I like what I read I'll go find a quiet corner to curl up in and give it a few more chapters. If I'm hooked I'll check it out (of the library) or buy it.

Going to the library or a bookstore is always a 2 hour process. I want to be hooked within the first 2 chapters, otherwise I feel like I wasted my time and money.

My two cents.

[This message has been edited by RillSoji (edited March 03, 2004).]

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

I don't have any one way I choose books. My mom bought me "The Hobbit" when I was sick and home from school in the 5th grade. "A Wizard of Earthsea" was required reading in 7th Grade. I read Nancy Drew which led me to Hitchcock which led me to Andre Norton's YA sf/f books, which led me to a lot of adult sf/f. A friend recommended Anne McCaffrey. I guess it snowballed from there.

My time-honored method of checking out or buying books is usually - go to the sf/f section, pull what looks or sounds interesting (maybe I've heard of an author, or like the cover, or title, or whatever), sit down on the floor in front of the stack, and start reading cover blurbs, then inside teasers, then finally the initial pages. Actually, now that I think about it, if I'm not drawn in by the first few lines, or maybe paragraphs, I usually put it back. I don't think about it - it is just an enjoyment thing. There are so many books to choose from now that time is an issue. Lately I'm just reading from authors whose work I know and they are putting out the latest whatever - I just read "Crystal City" for example.

Hmmm - this is interesting - if I wrote a book I might not even choose it to read initially! Poor new authors