Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Shorter is Better?

This is topic Shorter is Better? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Tracy (Member # 2015) on :

I've been reading the message boards and story advice and I wanted to know if anyone has any advice on how to keep short stories short. I see that several people can write stories under 5K and even under 2K. Try as I might, after something ridiculous like 14 revisions, the best I have been able to do was 7K, with most of my stories being around 11-12K. My current one 17K at the moment, and will probably round out closer to 18.

Also, as a matter of curiosity, how long does it take people to write a short story from the time they start their first draft to the time it goes off to the publisher? I suspect I am way off on this as well.

Tracy

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

> Also, as a matter of curiosity, how long
> does it take people to write a short story
> from the time they start their first draft
> to the time it goes off to the publisher?
> I suspect I am way off on this as well.

This depends on how you write; there is not a "right" answer for how long it should take.

As for how to keep short stories short -- choose a simple plot, have only one or two major characters, and rely on the reader to make the proper assumptions about characters and setting based on the information you give.

Posted by Phanto (Member # 1619) on :

When writing in my novel, I go hellishly slow. But for short stories, it's completely different.

My current standard is the entire rough draft in one day. A couple day wait. Then heavy editing. Another few days. More editing, and it's done.

[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited June 20, 2004).]

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

Make sure you're approaching the story as a short story. It has to have a simple plot, with only a few characters. Two if you can get away with it. Also you need to get very good at cutting unnecessary words. Make sure there is nothing in there that isn't required to support the story or its theme, or paint as good a picutre possible of the characters. Words that do all three of these things at once are definitely the best

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

Why are you trying to shorten your stories? I guess if it's to comply with a publisher's guidelines or something, then it's probably a good idea, but if it's just because you think shorter=better, I wouldn't even worry about it. Just tell the story you want to tell, and let it take up as much space as it needs. Some authors use a lot of words to tell a story (like Robert Jordan) and some use very few (like C.S. Lewis). Most are somewhere in between. Just find your niche.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

Tracy, if your stories are 11-12 k then they are not short stories, they are novelettes. A short story in science fiction/fantasy is usually defines as being under 7.5k. 7.5-17.5 is novelette, and if you go over that, you're writing a novella.

That isn't to say you shouldn't write things that are these length, but just be aware that you are not really writing a short story at that point.

In an ideal world, your story would be exactly as long as it needed to e to tell the story. In the real world, there are marketability issues with certain lengths. a novel, for example, is technically as short as 40k words, but in reality if you can't get it up to at least 70k words it's not marketable. (At least, not as a first novel.) This does effectively leave a gap in terms of lengths that are acceptable -- a sizeable one.

I don't know anything about the marketing of novellas and novelettes. I know many magazines publish them, but I don't know what the saturation level is. Personally, though, once I get invested in a concept enough to make it almost 20k words, I can usually find a way to thicken the plot and turn it into a novel, which feels more rewarding to me. (Personal preference, no more.)

As to the elusive short story....I had this problem for a while. The thing is, many longer works even start out as short stories. You either tell a smaller part of the story, starting closer to the climax, or trim it down, eliminating sub-plots and staying focused on the main goal.

The issue isn't wordiness, it's really just a matter of story. If you want to rite a short stor, you need to come up with a concept that fits into a short stor, or you need to be willing to just tell part of the story. The thing is, you can do this and still tell the whole story later. Many novels blossom from short stories. My current novel project is an extention of a short story I wrote a year ago. Many of the short stories I write now have the potential to turn into novels when next I am looking for a project to suit me.

Posted by Lord Darkstorm (Member # 1610) on :

I have been working on improving my short stories. One thing I have been told, and read in some of the writing books, cut anything that is not necessary to tell the story.

Trust me, it is nothing you will want to do...everything is necessary...or is it? Try this. Take one of your finished stories, print it out. Read through it and anything that is not essential...kill it off. Correct the odd sentance or two. Then create another version with all the cuts you made. See if it still doesn't tell the story, while not giving every detail.

I would suggest Steven King's "On Writing". Although I'm not a fan of his fiction, this book is actually quite good.

Posted by Phanto (Member # 1619) on :

My question is, can you sell a work that's only around 1500 words?

Posted by AeroB1033 (Member # 1956) on :

quote:
I would suggest Steven King's "On Writing". Although I'm not a fan of his fiction, this book is actually quite good.

That's funny, because I do like his fiction and I thought the book was crap. Why? It's stuff like his advice on editing and revision that just tend to piss me off. I'm not saying that the advice he gives in the book wouldn't work great for him and some others, but in reality, it's really a "this is the way I work, so you should too" book. I'm happy for him that he can just sit down with some characters and a situation and fire out a story, but most of us have to outline. I appreciate that his style of writing requires a lot of editing, but there are those of us that believe cutting swathes from your work just for editing's sake takes the life from your story.

Rant mode off, sorry about that.

Back on topic: "those unnecessary bits" are actual vital in some ways. You want to give the reader the impression that there's a whole world filled with detail right around the corner, if they could just walk the bend and see it. This doesn't just apply for fantasy & science fiction, though it's certainly even more true for those genres--it applies to all fiction. Is your story about a kid whose parents are getting a divorce? Cool. Does he have a dog? What are his friends' names? Where does he go to school?

It's the detail that makes your story feel alive, gives it context. You shouldn't go overboard, of course, and many writers (self included) naturally write without a lot of "unnecessary detail". But by the same token, you shouldn't browse through your story and take a machete to every extraneous bit of information. You'll just deaden it, make it feel less real and more "about itself".

All of that said, yes, stories in excess of 10k words are definitely novelette length, and you'll have a hard time selling them just because of the way the market works. In fact, the shorter the story, the more likely it'll get sold--and yes, Phanto, it's a lot easier for an editor to buy a three page story than a thirty page story, because the three page story is going to be a lot easier to fit into the magazine and won't kick other stories off the issue.

But that's just the way the market works. Examine your stories' structures, and see how complicated you've made their plots, how many characters you've introduced. Don't go back and cut swathes through your work; instead, simplify the plot, reduce the number of characters, and completely rethink the story, and then go back and rewrite it from scratch. That's the key, not excessive editing (which will only serve to suck the life from your story).

[This message has been edited by AeroB1033 (edited June 24, 2004).]

Posted by Lorien (Member # 2037) on :

I was just wondering, as a correlary to all this, if you publish a short story and then later use it as part of a novel, does this violate some kind of copywrite?

brain not functioning! : copyright

[This message has been edited by Lorien (edited June 24, 2004).]

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

Not unless you assigned copyright when the short story was published, which is unusual. But you would have to tell publishers that some of the material has been previously published when you came to try to sell the novel to them, and it might make it harder. Or it might not. It's hard to tell.

Posted by AeroB1033 (Member # 1956) on :

Depending on how recently the short story was published, it'll probably actually make it easier, because it's like free marketing for the publisher (plus they know you're publishable, and that's always an important selling point).