) talks about how you can do the same basic story several different ways without it feeling tired or clichéd. I think that we've sort of proved that with the challenge.<All take a collective sigh of relief>
Did everyone have as much fun as I did?
Considering the stories I read, we all kept the basic elements to some extent - some closer than others, some obscure, some in your face. Creativity simply oozed out our fingertips. But I laughed when someone mentioned how all the editors are going to wonder where all the 3BGG stories are coming from...
But... how do we discuss the stories? I know that sounds dumb, but what can we say that is substantive without being just personal opinion? I like that, I didn't like the other etc.
Do we say things like, " I think that "asdsd" was the most creative, whereas "wersdeew" was the most tightly written?
Not.
Somebody who knows what they are doing, please step in here so that I can slink out the virtual door. Please?
quote:
For no good reason, I watched the movies The Angry Red Planet and 2010: The Year We Make Contact, one right after another. Of course the level of sophistication of the movies themselves, and the acting -- oh my word, the acting! -- was eons apart, but I was floored by the similarity of storylines, especially the endings. Both had aliens telling us to leave that planet or moon and never come back.
Now I'm familiar with the idea there are really only so many plots, but watching these two movies in such immediate juxtaposition with each other still hammered home that there are myriad ways to tell a tale. Cliched is only that if we mishandle our material.Just some food for thought.
What better way to stimulate discussion than to reprint the post that this all going in the first place. Kolona's post (and if you're out there I hope I'm reading this right ) talks about how you can do the same basic story several different ways without it feeling tired or clichéd. I think that we've sort of proved that with the challenge.
In the last few weeks, several people have started posts voicing concerns about story similarities. Well, here we are purposely using the same plot (3 "goats" have to get from A to B and somehow have to bypass a "troll"), and not one story was the same.
I read all the submissions (I think/hope 
) and I didn't get bored doing it. Some of us chose to make the goats the whole story (like Keeley and HSO), for others they were just a bit in a bigger picture (like Newsbys and Punahougirl).
As far as discussion goes, I wouldn't mind hearing some personal opinions. After all, what is it that we normally do in F&F anyways?! I don't think we need to get full critques going, but we can talk about what worked/didn't work, use of voice, character motivations, milieu, etc.
I'd also like to know how much you struggled to come up with something, or if it came easily.
From the start I intended to stick to the original story (the goats and the troll), just wanting to find some unique twist that I could ride with. I pondered a courtroom drama, a story told from the troll's POV. But then those types of stories have all been done (The REAL Story of the Three Little Pigs by Whatshisname). And since the first few ideas are very seldom the best I kept thinking.
When it finally came it came like a landslide and was written in a few hours with edits taking just a few hours more.
I wonder why?
Generally I agonize over a story.
I suppose having the spine of the story already written helped, but I've never written a more clean story, one that garnered so little criticism from those who critiqued it. I guess that means it's a success?
There have also been questions concerning posting the stories in their entirety online. Would it hurt chances of paid publication later on? Should we try to publish as a group elsewhere? How do we want to handle this and who might we seek for advise on the matter?
As for how I came up with my story, I read the provided link and was really caught by the phrase the last Billy Goat says about crushing the troll to bits. The way it's worded reminded me of a phrase from the Lokasenna (one version anyway) where Thor states he'll crush Loki with Mjollnir. Plus, the overall story reminded me of the myths about Andvari's ring and Idunne's apples.
quote:
Robyn_Hood
Member posted August 05, 2004 01:15 PMSounds good but this is the "first ever" challenge, not "first annual". You can't have a first annual, it isn't annual until the second one
(Okay, okay, my journalism instructors pounded that into my head and I just can't shake it. I'll be quiet now )
For some reason I focused on journalism and the wrangling, and that went to having a young woman getting into trouble regarding journalism, and since it was about the Goats Gruff and they were billys, then since I had a woman character she had to be "Billie", etc. And obviously a woman named Billie who is into journalism is going to try and interview a troll... And I don't know WHERE all the creepy stuff came from, except that I've always been a Gahan Wilson fan http://www.lowbrowartworld.com/gahan_wilson.html .
Another Rewrite? Something else?
Haven't sold it yet. Maybe I should offer it in F&F....
Mine is probably one of the more obscure tales, keeping only the bare bones elements. The troll of the bridge transformed into two thieves in a darkened alleyway. While the three "goats" are present, they are hard to spot, and seemingly turned upside down. The first person to traverse the path is the largest of the three, but the one with the smallest purse. The second has a larger purse, while the third is the wealthiest but also the smallest and seemingly most frail. In my story, then, it is the size of the purse-- the wealth-- and the apparent vulnerability of the traveler, that directly corresponds to the goats.
My tale will end up being but one chapter of a longer work, one in which fairy tale rewrites are threaded throughout. Seems like a fun challenge to me!
With one chapter written, I have only two more to go to meet my goal of three chapters of a novel length work by mid-December.
Meanwhile, I'm learning more fairy tales, legends and myths than I EVER heard as a child!
Susan
In fact I had two ideas but only used one of them. I have now forgotten what the other one was...doh!! But I do remember it was quite good.
Actually I think mine is the shortest, probably because I kept to the main theme, with only some changes in the setting. I also tried to keep it short because the original is a simple short story.
But it was good to see how you guys think. I may never understand how Keeley thinks, but it's all good
Do you think Kathleen would tell us to professionally submit if she had read them?
quote:
Do you think Kathleen would tell us to professionally submit if she had read them?
Okay, workshop them and make them as good as you possibly can, and then submit them for professional publication.
Black holes gobble stuff up, destroying it. Kinda troll-like. So how do you get a black hole to give you up? Hawking recently recanted his old belief, and now black holes can give up their mass (yeah, oversimplifying - watch my hand wave and make it so). And where does it go? Maybe wormholes and black holes don't open up to alternate universes, but maybe a black hole gobbles our up, and pours it out - it has to go somewhere. I've been toying with having my black hole power a wormhole - a ha, have the mass go out a wormhole (a bridge from here to there). Why would someone want to cross that bridge - what would be so good on the other side?
Also, I was reading about a possible ends of the universe (open version in this case) and was having a discussion about it and existence with my mother's helper (she's 12.5, and goes to a private church school). In a way, I don't want to die - I don't want to stop existing. So what would someone with that feeling do about it?
Throw in some sleep deprivation, and go to sleep thinking of your ideas.
Yeah, kind of bare bones. I plan to rewrite based on some great critique and ideas I received, and hope to send it somewhere. I also like the idea of us doing something with the stories - but maybe we can give shots at publishing them...
I really enjoyed reading all the stories people sent, and was happy so many wanted to read mine! This place is good for the soul (or eats it, time-wise!) - it felt good to do the story.
Well, I saw the 'green and lush fields' as paradise, some sort of 'heaven'.
And the troll had the power over whether you got in or not, a kind of priest.
Two brothers were already there and that's why the the eldest was so keen to go there too.
But in this case the troll was happy to oblige, sensing the boy would bring change.
But when it all come down to it the bridge wanted a new troll -- that was the change.
The biggest 'billy-goat' became the troll.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited September 01, 2004).]
And thank you to those who have followed this thing through. Just shows you how a group can support and inspire each other. I definitely think some of these stories are worth submiting for publication. So HAtrack away at them and then go for it. Not sure about the anthology idea. Anthologies don't really pay well and if you can get some dollars for your work then why not.
quote:
I may never understand how Keeley thinks, but it's all good
???
I guess I need to work on my exposition. You should be completely confused and ready to pull your hair out by now. 
I think it just may inspire the next round of challenges.
I was totally stuck on my WIP and didn't know where to go with it. I had a general idea, but it was not working out the way I planned.
The rewrite triggered an amazing series of events, which got me back on track.
Overall, Hatrack has helped me immensely. This workshop might be the best thing I ever got addicted to. Maybe better than chocolate!
Ok, now I'm just talking crazy, but I think you get the picture.
Thanks to everyone. I can't wait to do another exercise like this. Bring it on!
Why not do "The Pied Piper of Hamelin"?
That is a great story with lots of elements that could be fun to play with.
Here is a link to a site which has the Brother's Grimm version as well as Robert Browning's poem: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/hameln.html#grimm245
The really intriguing bit is that it is possible this actually happened, or something happened to 130 children of the town, anyway.
What do you all think?
On a separate note, I'm a bit lost as to what to do with Big Bob. I know the story needs a couple more revisions, but I have no idea what markets to submit to when I'm done with it (and I am quite doubtful that it will ever be publishable). Any ideas?
http://www.quantummuse.com/may04_piper.html
------
I'm not even sure what inspired my story. I know Kathleen's comment about not confining ourselves to goats and trolls struck something. Around the same time I think I read something from someone else about how there were no dwarfs in sci-fi; I figured this wasn't so as there are red ones, white ones, brown ones, etc. all over the universe. Dwarf-Troll, I started to make the stretch. I guess it kind of evolved grom there and I ended up setting it in a milieu I've been developing for a few years.
Overall this was a great experience and I look forward to more. Perhaps in October?!
Pied Piper sounds good to me, too. But will this be a straight rewrite, like the last, or something different?
You guys are terrific. Thanks for letting me play with ya!
Susan
Lots of possibilities there, I think.
Now if we're going to do this every other month, that presents a semi-dilemma--the challenge would fall in December. But then again, a challenge focused on a Christmas story might be amazing. But then again, December is an awfully busy month for most folks.
We could wait until November for the next challenge and have that one be a Christmas Challenge? We could do the Pied Piper in September to shift ourselves to odd numbered months?
There I go being the anal retentive organization freak again!
Someone shut me up!
[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited September 02, 2004).]
I don't know. Either way it is unlikely that we could satisfy everyone, so, I guess as long as we post a September challenge soon, that would work.
I'm not averse to doing it again this September. With rewrite challenges due every other month, that would make this one due September 30, and the next one due November 30. Then we could take December off and start a new challenge with the new year.
Or not, if it conflicts with the No, No, No Mr. Bill! or whatever that was...
[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited September 02, 2004).]
I do understand if it becomes a problem for dakota, because she is our unofficial\official project leader. I've been in a position like that before and it can be time consuming.
Dakota - Just let us know if it becomes a problem. Since it is established and fairly low maintenance, I'm sure any one of us would be willing to take it over for a few months to give you a break.
How about if we had the options: basic, prequel, sequel?
The prequels would end more or less like the old Paul Harvey radio show "...and now you know The Rest of the Story..."
Again not limiting ourselves to rats, children or pipers.
Thoughts?
).It was just an idea. I can see where there could be some limitations/problems.
"I'm writing this the way Arthur Conan Doyle would have."
"This is a prequel to the Pied Piper, but written in the present."
or in my case,
"This is a rewrite that I hope won't make you gag!"
But I have no intention of taking control of it, like a tight fisted tyrant. This will only work and only keep going with everyone's input. The MINUTE I feel like I'm turning into a motivational speaker (trying to keep everyone excited about it), or the minute I feel like everyone's sitting around waiting for me to make all the decisions (I HATE making decisions) is the moment I step out of it. NOT that anyone's doing that. I'm just projecting into the unknown, just worrying about possible yet improbably outcomes. See? Anal retentive and the organization freak. SO type 'A'. Didn't I tell you?
Which is why I wonder if a monthly challenge is too much. Might we more effectively maintain the high pitch of excitement if we go bimonthly instead?
Would Quarterly be even better? Any fanatics out there voting for weekly? Maybe we could have a different kind of challenge each month to stoke the interests of those who just didn't get all fired up about this one--a three month rotation kind of thing? For instance, mikemunsil's 30 word character challenge is fascinating and the time between Rewrite Challenges could be filled with things like that--not to mention more of the woes of poor MaryRobinette.
As long as it happens more than just annually, I'll be happy
We could give it an October 30 deadline and then let people do the November novel thing.
And collect ideas for challenges that we can vote on to start on after the holidays.
His character challenge was interesting enough to attract a new member to post in it. *waves a welcome to Lizm*
Susan
*Monthly rewrite challenge beginning with The Pied Piper (great theme for back-to-school, I think) for a Sept 30th deadline (which I will post today).
*Skip November for the NaNoWriMo folks (And could someone please let those of us in the not-know, know what it is and where we can look into it?)
*Next challenge deadline December 24th for a Christmas story challenge.
*And another thought, for October it might be fun to do a rewrite of The Headless Horseman. Any other ideas for October? Any ideas for a story to rewrite for December?
I like Headless Horseman/Legend of Sleepy Hollow for October.
December, hmm. Lets NOT do something based around the nativity. Yes it is a great story, but it already feels far too overdone and re-done. What about the story of Saint Nicholas (not Santa)?
Anyways, I gotta go. See everyone on Tuesday
Susan
Whatever you guys want to do. We still have time to hear plenty of other ideas.
And thanks for the link.
[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited September 03, 2004).]
Susan
Kathleen, if you think that discussion thread is unnecessary go ahead and delete it. But now we can get back to the business of discussing last month's challenge.
Altogether we've had 13 submitters. So how many of you are planning to submit your story for publication? To whom do you plan to submit? Any publications that you wouldn't submit to in a million years?
I'm actually seriously considering taking that submission leap. I've not submitted to a publisher before. It's a frightening/exciting step. I'm scared out of my wits--not so much that I'll be rejected, but that maybe I'll be accepted! Does that make sense to anyone?
For now, I'm trying to figure out how to work "Pied Piper" into another chapter! *VBG*
I do hope some of us try to get our stories published, though. And succeed!
Go for it, djvdakota!
Susan
My story ended up being a part of my larger WIP. I am planning to send that out for publication when it is completed. I was planning to go for Tor. I'm researching Luna. Not sure what they are up to yet. I don't want to publish with them if they are too Harlequin-like. I bought a couple of books they have published and plan to read them this weekend for "research".
Shadow - Perhaps diabolical could make someone feel good. You never know. My thoughts are already churning on possible "gifts".
*laughs in a maniacal fashion*
NewsBys - I just read of Luna in one of my writing magazines. I'd be curious what you think - maybe you could post your thoughts after you do your "research?"
The whole "Pied Piper" thing is actually depressing me now, in connection with the horrible events in Russia. If I do a rewrite, I plan to save the children (or whoever), teach the parents (or whoever) a lesson, and boy will the piper get it... I'm not saying we change the story - I just might have trouble, personally, doing it.
quote:
The whole "Pied Piper" thing is actually depressing me now, in connection with the horrible events in Russia. If I do a rewrite, I plan to save the children (or whoever), teach the parents (or whoever) a lesson, and boy will the piper get it... I'm not saying we change the story - I just might have trouble, personally, doing it.
I hadn't even thought of the connection with events in Russia. But wow, that would be one hell of a powerful story to retell the piper in that light. It recalls to mind a short I read--can't remember by who--written in response to a murder in New York some years ago that was witnessed by neighbors who did nothing to stop it. Amazingly chilling story BECAUSE of the link to the real event. Go for it, punahougirl. Make a statement for all of us.
Right. I found the whole exercise quite enjoyable. And it was nice to see everyone's own creative take on a simple tale such as this.
In my case, the inspiration came from my own back garden here in London. Everything in the story is directly taken from actual creatures and plantlife that inhabit our yard, which made it incredibly easy to visualize and to write. Those of you who read the story got the first (and still the only) unedited version of it. It took about 3 hours perhaps.
Though I missed the mark on emulating Douglas Adams (the bits about Ms. Gerkins, the patent agent, which nearly everyone said to take out of the story, and which I stubbornly won't do -- but I might shuffle it elsewhere), I did succeed at writing something funny and also kept the basic morality of the story intact. Yet, I'm not so sure I stayed true to the Gruffs.
A few of you had the Trip-Trap-Tripping thing going on, which was a clever tie-in to the original story. MaryRobinette's was quite a memorable take/twist on tap dancing and also had quite a nasty, foul-mouthed and bitter antagonist.
Other stories (and I'm doing this from memory, so sincerest apologies for not remembering who wrote what at the moment) had actual goats, one of which I didn't realize were goats 'til near the end of it, which forced me to go back and reread it (my fault for missing the clues and forgetting what the original story was about in the first place). We also had a sleazy used-car salesman--and nobody likes a sleazy used-car salesman--that gets his deserved comeuppance at the end. There was even mythological gods beating up trolls and stuff.
Overall, very interesting stuff and good work, all! Thanks for sharing your stories!
So, the next is the Pied Piper, eh? That'll be something.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited September 05, 2004).]
As to the inspiration, I simply decided to put our own pets into the story. From there, it was quite easy.
I think I might try for publication, but I have a longer idea of which this is only a small portion. So, stay tuned for chapter 2. (Also known as "Hansel & Goatel").
If anyone who read my re-write story, Gruff Bluff, would be willing to do a full crit for me, just let me know. I would appreciate the feedback. If you need me to re-send it, just e-mail me.
Thanks in advance any help you can offer!!!
I have no idea where to submit it to, but I want to send it out again.
Thanks for the nice words HSO.
I just used http://engine.freeshell.org/
(a link Christine posted in the Promise Reports thread) and search some critiria that seemed to fit your story. Here's one you may want to try: www.cricketmag.com
They have a few magazines and you only have to submit once and they will consider you for each of their publications.
Good luck