Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Real-world (sort of) fantasy

This is topic Real-world (sort of) fantasy in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by TheoPhileo (Member # 1914) on :

I'm starting on a story that I would like to make as contemporary as possible (it feels too close to a cliche fairy tale otherwise), but it does require a kingdom/nation that is fictional. So I'm thinking of doing the old invent-a-country-name-and-pretend-it-really-exists trick.

In all your experiences, can this be pulled off well? If so, are there any tricks you've seen that helped encourage the reader to suspend disbelief? (I just keep thinking of that cheesy comedy movie with Eddie Murphy... I think it was called Trading Places or something like that. The fake country thing always bothered me there.)

[This message has been edited by TheoPhileo (edited June 09, 2005).]

Posted by yanos (Member # 1831) on :

You're probably thinking of "Coming to America."

And, no, I've never seen it done well. Is there a need for a fictional country and why? Surely we have enough diversity for you to use a real one. Not knowing why you need one makes it difficult to answer your question.

Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :

Americans can't find most countries on a map anyway.

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

It's not a problem at all, as long as you work out the society and culture well enough.

And I say this as someone who at one time had memorized the names of all the countries in the world. (It was easier back in the early '80s.)

Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :

The best example that I've seen was a YA book called Being of Two Minds, by Pamela F. Service. I think the trick there was to base the culture on real experiences from foreign countries.

[This message has been edited by Jeraliey (edited June 09, 2005).]

Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :

I think this was done well in both The Great Race (Carpania) as well as Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang (Vulgaria). But maybe I was distracted by the cool old cars.

In The Princess Bride I bought into Guilder as a country. Didn't you?

If you search IMDB for the keywords "fictitious-country" you get 31 hits including Moon Over Parador, The Mouse that Roared, and Duck Soup. Several of these names were excellent.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

Alas, Spaceman, you are right when it comes to a majority of Americans. However, I refuse to write down to people. If Americans some away from a story I wrote with a made-up country in it and think that it exists, then I will take this to mean that I at least made it realistic sounding.

The trouble is that made-up countries have rarely been done well. I caught a part of "The Princess Diaries" on Disney the other night. Their made up country of Genovia is laughable. It's amazing how much the queen sound like an American. It's more amazing that their country has no culture or economy. I guess queens and princesses are just automatically rich because they have that title?

If you want to make up a country, you're going to have to research real countries. You will especially have to research real countries in the region where you plan to stick your country. Make it sound plausible that such a country might have sprung up there and not been overrun in some of the wars that have swept through the various continents.

Then give it a rich history. Make it a part of the world's history. Perhaps your country sent troops off to fight in one or both of the world wars? If so, what was its stake and how did it feel about the outcome? Of course, it will need its own history as well. When was it founded? By whom? How has it survived all these years? Has anyone tried to conquer it? Maybe it was conquered for a time and they ousted the intruders.

What's the economy based on? Now and in the past? How to the people live (and not just the nobility)? How does their government work? Does it work? What kinds of political intrigues and backstabbings go on in their government?

What's the weather like? How does this contribute to or detract from the economy? What's the geography like? Montains? rivers? oceans? Lakes? How's the soil for farming? How has all of this effected their history? (If they are completely surrounded by mountains, they might just be separatists...but would the soil be good for farming or too rocky?)

How modern is this country? Did it industrialize or is it stuck in the third world? Why?

What language to they speak? Why? If you made it up, what language does it derive from and why? (Example: most European languages are latin or germanic in origin for a reason.)

If you don't think about all of these questions and all of the ones I forgot to think of, your country will not come across as realistic. If you do, then I will suspend disbelief for you. Of course, you shouldn't squeeze all these answers into a prologue. If you do your homework, it will come out in the way the people act and react, in the way they talk, in the nuances of their actions and conversations and thoughts.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited June 09, 2005).]

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

I would also consider the fact that if you use a real country, it comes loaded with pre-made history to work into your story. For instance, I had a foreign exchange student who lived with me for 10 months. She was from Slovakia. I learned a lot about Slovakia in that amount of time. It's a beautiful country with terrain much like my home state of Oregon/USA. There are over 95 castles in Slovakia... the romans built much of the stonework in the capitol city of Brataslava. There's just an incredible amount of richness available in using real countries and it makes the reader pleased to find out they are learning bits and pieces of a real world.

If you don't want to use a real country, then it may be best to make the entire planet an alternate world/reality. Then you aren't confined by anything traditional.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

This is my first post on this thread. But I'm glad to hear that I'm right

I'd have to reiterate the question yanos asked, why do you need a fictional country?

I won't say that it's never been done well. But there are no "tricks" that help encourage the reader to suspend disbelief. If the story is worthwhile in it's own right, the reader will suspend disbelief, because all fiction involves suspension of disbelief.

Certain things help. First, don't try to fool the reader into thinking that there really is such a country, because then the question of whether or not such a country really exists supercedes the country in your story. This is true of all completely fictional elements, by the way.

In fiction, you always have to establish which elements have to be simply accepted under your rules of suspension of disbelief. Anything that you don't clearly mark as being "fictional" doesn't gain the benefit of suspension of disbelief. Thus a story presented as "hard" SF must get the science exactly right, not because the entire audience knows the science but because you are implicitly claiming that you got it right. A story set in modern Chicago has to get the lake and the L's and Oprah's offices right, not because the entire audience works in Oprah's offices (though maybe they do ) but because you're claiming to be using the real Chicago.

Basic things like gravity and sunburn and wind, you must get these right unless you specify that this story takes place on a fictional planet where these things are different.

All this brings up the second thing that you can do to help the audience maintain suspension of disbelief. Even though the country is clearly marked as fictional, the fictional country exists on our planet, which is real. Economics, meteorology, all that stuff Christine mentioned, get it right.

The third thing is that your fictional country must serve the needs of the story. You should have a sufficient reason to need a made up country. Any fictional character who is a prominent member of a ruling family is a sufficient excuse, as is a war, natural disaster or whatever, etc.

All reigning monarchs of recognized countries left in the world today are comfortably well off, though only a few are ultra-wealthy. Most have at least visited America, many were educated either here or in England for at least a time. Generally, their money (okay, credit) goes further in their own country than it does in other countries, particularly the developed nations.

There are a lot of "kings" and such of unrecognized countries, and these can be in quite adverse circumstances. Basically, having a royal family in this day and age is something of a luxury for a country, if you can't keep them in style, then you probably aren't much of a nation by most standards. On the other hand, sometimes a very particular circumstance can keep your nation from being recognized. Neither Taiwan nor Tibet are officially recognized as nations by most of the world. Overall, if you are going for drama (and plausibility) an unrecognized nation might serve your purposes far better than a recognized one, even if you don't need to involve any royalty.

Posted by TheoPhileo (Member # 1914) on :

quote:
The third thing is that your fictional country must serve the needs of the story. You should have a sufficient reason to need a made up country. Any fictional character who is a prominent member of a ruling family is a sufficient excuse, as is a war, natural disaster or whatever, etc.

Yeah, that's why I'm leaning towards a fictional country: my protagonist is a prince, whose father is dying, and is soon to inherit the throne.

I could go for a real country, if I can find one that fits close enough to the feel I'm looking for. Maybe it's a decision of which type of research I feel like doing: finding something that fits, or inventing something that's real enough.

Thanks all for your thoughts.

(I totally bought into Guilder in PB... good example, actually, of what I was looking for)

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

No, don't use a real country, because then it will be about the real prince, unless you set it in a made up past or future.