Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Esoteric material in your writing

This is topic Esoteric material in your writing in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

Does anyone else have an urge to include very obscure references to myths, religion, or philosophy or other esoteric material in your stories?

Personally I find reading a story with such references very satisfying esecially when they PROPEL the story and have a clear reason to be there. However, you have to have an eclectic mind to follow them all.

Being a fan of the writings of popular authors from the late 1800s and early 1900s, I find their stories to be brimming with the sort of references I describe. Bram Stoker, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, MR James all either assume the reader understands their reference or find it beneath them to explain it. I can't help but suppose that today we are less familiar with such subjects as the general readership was, say, 100 years ago. Let alone 160 years ago at the time of Mary Shelly and her ilk.

Should a writer of popular fiction today avoid such obscurities? Should we explain everything nicely, so that the reader never need pick up another book, say an encyclopedia or dictionary, in order to understand a passage. Perhaps we should leave it for the reader to suss out for themself?

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited June 20, 2005).]

Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :

I guess it really depends on how "popular" you want your fiction to be. There are tradeoffs, it seems. It's satisfying to make an esoteric reference if it says exactly what you want it to. At the same time, though, you must be willing to accept that every obscure reference loses at least x amount of readers. If it's an acceptable loss to you, then allude to your heart's content.

I once was (briefly) a member of a "garage" band called Esoteric Allusion. Perhaps needless to say, we never got much of an audience.

[Edited to put in a missing apostrophe. What the heck is wrong with me recently?!!! ]

[This message has been edited by Jeraliey (edited June 20, 2005).]

Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :

I agree with Jeraliey; I'll add the one-sentence summary: people today are lazier.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I like it PROVIDED the author explains it.

Posted by dpatridge (Member # 2208) on :

My take is to include them where you can, but make them a treat to the careful reader.

Make it so that you can understand what you are saying even if you are not acquainted with the obscure reference, but make it so that a person who IS familiar with it can catch it and say: "Whoa, neat, this author knows some interesting stuff."

IMO, it makes for more believable milieu.

Another great thing to try to do is to make up your OWN material in the book that is esoteric to the characters. Only some of them know anything about it, and only the careful reader will know anything about it either. This makes for more believable characterization AND milieu.

EDIT: Darn it briggs, you stole my thunder.

[This message has been edited by dpatridge (edited June 20, 2005).]

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

Okay, an urge to keep in check then.
It's just the 'do I have to explain everything' bug biting.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited June 21, 2005).]

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

oh, gracious, my stuff is abounding with esoteric material. However, I'm writing fantasy, and the esoteric stuff is simply woven in with the milieu and the magic I'm presenting. I don't go out of my way to explain it (beyond the basic description of what the character sees or does), however people who understand esoteric nuances will pick it up.

Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :

I'm all for esoteric nuances being there for people who will pick up on them - just don't let them make the story impenetrable for people who don't get them, unless you're deliberately pursuing a very limited audience.

If, for example, you use a classical reference to name a character - people who get the reference will nod to themselves and smile, and people who don't will just think "oh, cool name" and read on.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Yeah. In those older stories, there's a lot of references that are "nifty" if you catch them, but it isn't like you'll be totally lost if you don't.

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

SURVIVOR.
Looking at it from that perspective you are right, I don't get most of the allusions and still enjoy the stories.

Something to keep in mind.

PS In the Comedy Thread your said that the jokes should not feel forced or contrived, I guess that applies to the esoteric too.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited June 25, 2005).]

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

In fantasy, especially, I think there is no need to go too far in depth with the descriptions - one needs merely to toss a few ideas into the pot here and there, let them simmer, and let the reader flavor it with their own imaginations.

For example, I submitted a piece for critique with a sentence that stated: "Seika could feel the circle of protection raise around her and the girl."

One of my critiquers cited another book (one I've not read, by the way) and asked if I got the idea from that book. The answer is "no" because this is a standard concept in energy work. It's not unique to any one milieu (or author, or book). As I said earlier, I will sprinkle this sort of esoteric theme into the writing and the ones who recognize the concept or jargon will be satisfied that its been expressed properly, but it won't be enough to leave others scratching their heads.

I think that trying to explain esoteric concepts in detail would actually confuse most readers rather than illuminate them.