Hatrack River Writers Workshop: What's Your Opinion?

This is topic What's Your Opinion? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Novice (Member # 3379) on :

From "The Elements of Style, 4th edition." William Strunk, Jr. and E. B. White.

pg. 84:

"Many references have been made in this book to 'the reader,' who has been much in the news. It is now necessary to warn you that your concern for the reader must be pure: you must sympathize with the reader's plight (most readers are in trouble about half the time) but never seek to know the reader's wants. Your whole duty as a writer is to please and satisfy yourself, and the true writer always plays to an audience of one. Start sniffing the air, or glancing at the Trend Machine, and you are as good as dead, although you may make a nice living."

***

I often think that a nice living would be nice. How likely is it that a beginning writer will eventually have both? That they will become a "true writer," and make a nice living? What would that kind of success require of the writer?

(Let's say, for the sake of keeping the discussion as focused as possible, that a "nice living" means you can sustain your family with the proceeds of your writing.)

Posted by Verdant (Member # 3498) on :

I think this is entirely possible. The trick is finding your audience. Take Tolkien for instance. How many books can you name of his? (just for argument's sake, call LOTR 3 books) I can name 5. What's more, he did not make money from his writing while alive, he made it from teaching and writing associated with that position. Poe's life was a mess and likewise, he made very little money from writing. Most of it came from editing and marriage. Regardless, he is one of my favorite authors.

I honestly believe the trick is hard work and finding your own voice. There is always a market for your voice, even though it may not be the market you expect.

Write what you know. Find your own style and use it. Imitation is a poor way to make a living and gives no satisfaction.

Just my $.02

[This message has been edited by Verdant (edited July 20, 2006).]

Posted by Grijalva (Member # 3295) on :

I don't really know and I don't think there is any real way to estimate what you would need to do. I think though as with any profession, if you want to make a job out of writing you have to have study it and write almost everyday.

For me, I can't see myself doing anything else, so I will give writing my all and in the end hope that some form of success comes out of it.

I think it's good to find your own style, but I see nothing wrong with imitating other writers styles; actually I can't see how you cant imitate other writers styles. Just from the book I read I know some of my style comes from them, but it has been manipulated into my style, if you follow me.

[This message has been edited by Grijalva (edited July 20, 2006).]

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

It depends upon how good you are and how hard you try.

Posted by JK (Member # 654) on :

I think the problem lies in the fact that the way to make money through any kind of media is sell it to as many people as possible. That means it has to be simple (so that it's not just Hawking and, um, other clever people reading it), it has to be inoffensive (so it's not just the angry and 'edgy' reading it), and it has to be trendy (because that's what's selling).

There are, of course, exceptions to the 'rule', but generally it's the pap that sells. That's why David Eddings has so many books on the shelves...

Posted by Garp (Member # 2919) on :

What exactly is the question? Are you concerned about making a good living, or are you concerned with becoming a writer?

If you're concerned with making a living, then become an accountant. I think that's the only sane route to go. Some of the best writers aren't very popular at all; Gene Wolfe, for example, held a full-time job while he wrote on the side. But if you try to be popular, you might want to start rolling the chicken bones trying to divinize what the next wave of popular fiction will be. Good luck.

I do think you can say, "I like to write and I'd like to make some extra money, so I'm gonna write popular/commerical fiction." I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Dickens, Twain, Maugham, Dostovesky, Trollope -- they all wrote for money. But they didn't whore themselves out, either, and I think there's a difference -- and the difference, I think, lies in how you let your vision of the world come through your stories. It's all right to decide to write, say, fantasy because it's a hot market right now (though it may not be by the time your novel is published), but it would be a moral fault then to blindly imitate the big fantasy novels out there today, as if you were doing nothing more than writing-by-number. As OSC says in one of his essays in "Uncle Orson's Writing Class," it takes quite a bit of discipline and skill to craft a commerical novel. The key is balancing "writing for the market" and "staying true to yourself."

Here's a personal example. I started working on a novel about a haunted church. I struggled with it for almost a year, on and off, before putting it away. Just a few hours ago (I'm not kidding) I realized, out of the blue, that the reason the novel hadn't worked was because I was supressing my own religious ideas and convictions for fear that "it wouldn't sell." If I ever write it (and I'm thinking about trying it again, starting tonight), I'm going to write it they way I want. Maybe it won't see b/c of the over religious themes, but it certainly won't sell without them. I found that I don't read Stephen King b/c he writes about zombies and vampires; I read Stephen King b/c I like Stephen King. It's amazing just how personal fiction really is.

Well, that't was a mouthful.

[This message has been edited by Garp (edited July 20, 2006).]

Posted by Grijalva (Member # 3295) on :

I completely agree with you Garp, on the fact that you read a book cause of the author and his unique style. For instance George R.R. Martin doesn't have anything really new in his stories, but the way he writes it, makes it something new.

[This message has been edited by Grijalva (edited July 20, 2006).]

Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :

I'm reading a mainstream novel, and at first I was picking through it looking for grammar/wording/etc. weaknesses, and even halfway into it I find one now and then, but I don't look as hard anymore because I care about the main character and what happens to him. Apparantly, I'm easy to please. All it takes is a character in an increasingly life or death situation who just keeps getting himself in deeper, throw in some light foreshadowing and a flourish of setting, minor characters, and romance. Then please don't jog my elbow with too much bad prose, out of character actions, or plot twists that strain my ability to suspend disbelief. I might not remember I read this book a year from now, but I see why it made it onto the bookshelves.

Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :

The problem with selling your soul is that the devil is a notorious deal-breaker. Though when I think of writing non-fiction, I would want to make it as readable and appealing as possible. I would feel it was my duty to my subject matter to pimp it up.

Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :

I wonder if there's any quantifiable way to calculate how many people start out beginning they can make a living writing and how many actually end up doing so. For example, I've heard that 1 in 10,000 high school basketball players actually makes it to the pros. Does anyone know of any comparable stats for writers?

Posted by Corky (Member # 2714) on :

I've heard such stats, but don't remember them for certain.

Something close to the one you give for basketball, if not worse.

I do remember hearing that the average yearly income of writers, including all best-sellers like Stephen King in the calculation, comes out to about $4000, but that was a few years ago.

When you consider how much best-sellers make and how many of them you hear about, that average implies a huge number of people calling themselves writers who barely make anything at all.

In order words, don't quit your day job. However, if you really can't NOT write, don't quit writing either. Let the writing itself be the reward.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

In my younger days, I would have been willing to have hopped on a trend and to have made a living as a writer, but after a lifetime of no sales, I've decided that writing is for the fun of it. (When I can get around to it.)