I've seen more said-book-isms in YA literature than in adult lit. Is that because children tend to lack social intuition and often miss interpersonal context? Is it because they tend to read more slowly and tend to miss out on word-sense context, so it has to be told to them? Is it because YA lit is less strict? Is there a smaller pool of authors and/or submissions? Or is it just a genre convention?
(I've heard that it's a romance novel genre convention, but as I regard romance novels as nothing but novel-length excuses, I generally avoid talking about them. )
I'm asking because I'm seriously considering breaking into YA science fiction, but I don't know the conventions.
When you become a writer you will learn that the most important thing is the story. All those rules you learned are just tools and rarely absolutes.
said-book-isms are not so bad. But you must learn first not to use them before you learn how to use them properly.
A good, publishable writer can get away with breaking some of the rules haphazardly if they are very good at the other things that go into building a story.
YA definitly has lower standards. I picked up one book and the dialog was all tagged with said followed by an adverb everytime.
But most YA fiction is serial and mostly written by staff writers who got the job straight out of college or through journalism. They write formulaic books based on a template developed by their manager. Its also often based on or one-offed on a popular theme. (Look at all the pirate YA books in the last three years and the Magic School books in the last 6)
Breaking into the stand-alone YA market is just as hard for a true aspiring writer as any other. Outside of the pre-fab houses, high standards still apply. You still have to get past an editor or ten before getting considered for publication and those editors expect you to follow most of the rules. Many of them read for writing skills as much as story building skills.
Absolutely right. I taught sixth grade for four years, and read a lot of juvenile literature at the time. The quality of writers simply are not that great. (There are always exceptions, of course.) By the same token, they often take on a bit more of a babyish style and voice, which is probably usually intentional. Done well, it might be good - but it usually isn't done very well. IMHO, the best juvenile literature is written by highly skilled writers who don't use gimicks like a babyish voice.
R.L. Stine (of Goosebumps) wrote very simple books for kids. They loved them because of the imaginative aspects of the horror genre, but the writing was unsophisticated and flat. He wrote one (only one that I know of) book for an adult audience. I only got through a portion of it, but it was one of the most pathetic pieces of writing I have ever seen published.
But it does go to show that you might be able to find some success in juvenile literature with lower quality work. If I don't improve, I may wind up there. (Of course you might find some success in adult literature with some lower quality work.)
Its amazing how proliferate bad advice can be. Amateur writers frequently make the misjudgement that repeating the word said is bad. Here are some examples of said-book-ism given as bad advice:
http://www.byroncs.nsw.edu.au/starfish/writing/said/said.htm
quote:
"YA definitly has lower standards."
Like Sci-fic and fantasy have lower standards than literary fiction?
I think its not so much 'lower' standards as 'different' ones.
It's human nature to assume that others with different standards actually have lower ones. It's the first, easiest and most obvious way to explain the differences, but is wrong in a million ways.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 22, 2007).]
quote:
Its amazing how proliferate bad advice can be. Amateur writers frequently make the misjudgement that repeating the word said is bad. Here are some examples of said-book-ism given as bad advice:
Here's another spot with some bad writing advice:
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/003845.html
Matt
I disagree with you and was saying so.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 22, 2007).]
It's like telling me the sun is really a big ball of ice.
is a lot like an actual said-book. The thing is, compared to the real thing, it's really, really short.
quote:
For the curious, one of pantros's links:
http://www.lunarnut.com/said/
Yikes and double yikes. That is EXACTLY what I hate with tags. Just give me the dialog. If you need action, great! Put it in. But don't put it in the tag.
"I hate you," Bob vomitted.
That's the way I see it when people try to be creative with dialog tags.
Matt
May I remind you of some good YA literature?
Chronicles of Narnia
Dark is Rising
Wizard of Earthsea
Hary Potter
Catcher in the Rye
The Outsiders
And many, many others. And yes, you may disagree with some on my hastily prepared list or all of my list, but there IS good YA writing out there.
In every field, there is good and bad.
I wish I still had a quote from Marion Zimmer Bradley, but in essense, it was writing for teens and children requires you to write BETTER.
And I find what OSC says here very helpful: http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/1998-08-14-1.shtml
[This message has been edited by Hunter (edited March 24, 2007).]
Matt