For my WIP a group of people induce memory loss to my MC, in order to "re-educate" him. What is something that can, or sounds like it can, induce memory loss?
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
tequila?
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
seriously, though. You could use extremely narrow beam electrical impulses to destroy parts of the brain where memory is stored, but that's complicated, as a memory that involves several different aspects of the brain - taste, sight, sound, smell, would all have bits of the memory stored in different places. Plus, you'd have to go in and stimulate different spots until you found the one you were looking for.
For you're purposes, I am guessing a type of hypnosis (if the person is succeptible) or even brainwashing, a la Clockwork Orange, were you associate a horrible pain or sickness with the memory, would keep most people from accessing it.
Helpful?
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
What about that operation they showed on HOUSE? The "False Memory" episode. That sounded neat -- for such a thing.
I think it was some sort of electro shock to specific parts of his brain. He was still fully functional but had lost his past????
I looked a little like the places where they used to -- two hunded years ago? -- used to hit the head to turn people into idiots????
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited October 05, 2007).]
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
It's simple. What you do is--uh... I forgot...
Posted by Kurim21 (Member # 5695) on :
I enjoy the concept of thoughts having a physical impact on the brain becuase of the electrical impulses and the like. Each thought and memory would have a unique impact. So in theory if you could inhibit the specific combination of impulses, the person couldn't recall the memory. And if you took this further, you could create memory by artificially applying the right impusles. Basically the human brain is a computer. You can add and delete files and programs. Of course every brain would probably require different impusles so the technology would have to be very advanced. Perhaps a type of nanotechnology or something. Sorry about being so long winded.
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
You know, nano-technology would be a great way to go. I think I would look at using that myself if I was writing a story abour brain alteration. They could invade the entire brain, root out all bits of memory, and fry it all at once, then take the debris back out with them. But it would be a permanent change, and you couldn't recall it later. The Killashandra series also had a plot revolving around memory loss and retrievall - the memory was stored in an external memory keeper, then given back to the person when they wanted it. I don't remember the deets, though. I read it a long time ago.
Posted by HuntGod (Member # 2259) on :
Ruhypnol or the date rape drug causes short term memory loss. There are also a host of other drugs that CAN cause memory loss from Lipitor to Xanax.
If you are talking about "re-education" or "brainwashing" then memory loss is less of an issue than perception modification.
The techniques for brainwashing are generally a combination of diet manipulation coupled with drug therapy, usually a hallucinagenic like LSD.
Have fun with it.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
OK well all good ideas, but for my purpose I need something that is intended to "wipe out memories" but it doesn't work, the character loses those memories for a while, but they start coming back.
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
What about extracting the memories, instead of wiping them out, storing them someplace else--kind of like this guy uses the interface between a computer, his brain, and a microchip:
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited October 05, 2007).]
Posted by HuntGod (Member # 2259) on :
The problem there is whether the memories are short term or long term.
Short term memory would be easy to wipe out, think of it as RAM, simply short circuiting the process and keeping it from being written to long term memory.
Long term is more like ROM and you'd need to actually corrupt or destroy the storage unit to get rid of the data, which makes recalling it later much more different.
A possible out would be they have a procedure that wipes short term memory, but the individual has already processed it to long term momory. Because he has lost his short term memory he might very likely lose the ability to recall the pertinent information because he no longer has the memories to put it in context. Think of mislabelling a file, later as he rebuilds the context of why the info is pertinent he is able to once again access the info that has been stored long term.
That sound workable?
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
Have their children write the thing you want forgotten in their planners. Sure-fire way to make sure it doesn't get remembered.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
haha oliverhouse...
hmm well, let me create an example of the kind of thing I'm aiming at.
[for the record this is not my story] Imagine a guy, Jim, he's a secret agent for the US, and Russia capture him, they chemically induce him with something that will keep him intact and functioning, except corrupt his long term memory (theoretically), but it doesn't work (maybe he unknowingly resists it somehow) So, when he "Wakes up" he doesn't remember much, except for some short term memory, and gradually things start coming back to him in bits and pieces, until that big moment when AH-hA! it all fits together.
Is there some kind of chemical or fictional-procedure that would fir for a job like this?
Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
I think any chemical that could be used would cause brain damage. For example: Sodium Thiopental, Thiopentone Sodium, Trapanal (Sodium Pentathol) used in conjunction with hypnotherapy has been around since the Cold War, not only as a truth serum, but, as regression therapy and implanting false memories/suppressing real ones. If not carefully administered, it can cause medically-induced comas, pulmonary oedema, cadiac failure, airway obstruction, and permanent brain damage.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited October 05, 2007).]
Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
From the story outline, it sounds like you're looking for plain amnesia. If you really want something more selective, the article on Lacunar amnesia has some interesting ideas.
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
watch manchurian candidate
Posted by Vanderbleek (Member # 6535) on :
Don't know if this will be terribly helpful, but anyway...
I was reading a magazine (Discover most likely) and it mentioned that important people and events have a single cell devoted to remembering them. I thought that it was interesting, so I logged it away.
Now, if they could go in and "delete" these cells, it should be like removing something off a drive; the computer (or brain) still functions, but the data just isn't there. Now if they didn't delete it but put it in a different directory, or tried to overwrite it, or bypass it...they could pick the stuff they want him to remember, make him forget what they don't, and maybe even transplant new cells in...
Just a thought.
Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :
Zero, sounds like a story I wrote last year. The MC has his memory removed by an injection of some kind of memory blocker, then slowly, with prompts from sight, sound, smell, etc, he begins to remember. Doesn't help you very much though; it wasn't important how his memory was removed, but what he discovered when he got it back.
Sorry I couldn't be of help.
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
I guess the main question is, having decided that it was done through introducing a drug by injection -- or else consumption, what do I call this drug. I just need something that sounds like it could maybe/theoretically work, in a sci-fi world, and that's good enough for me.
Posted by Actionman2go (Member # 6549) on :
Using a popular search engine, I found this article that suggests memories form as molten glass and then cool down into a solid for later recall. I think that a cue. Turning the article upside down and "injecting" a little imagination would supply a key plot element.
Make up a name. Most drug names these days use letters not often in use elsewhere in english - x, z. Play with it.
I would have been able to remember my grandma if it weren't for the near-lethal dose of Zerotrope I was given before being inducted into the SSI.
Xanalax (lax usually = laxative, so you could do this for, literally, sh!ts and giggles.)
Memoxone Memoroxy (roxy for short - like how most street drugs get short names) Mathalane Mixtrictane Xipiran
Yes, I could do this all day (DH used to work in the pharma industry...)
Zenalt Lithaxilt Azikza (azzy) Artorz
Play with some word that means memory, dig up latin roots, etc (many drug names are based on latin roots and their meaning, followed by countless focus groups and market research to make sure there aren't any unanticipated consequences of name, followed by thorough internet search for existence of name and domain ownership...you get the idea.)
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
I ws watching Gothika with the kids last night and hoticed that they use a spliced together name for the antipsychotic Halle Berry gets.
The issue with a memory loss drug, I think, would be that you couldn't target it to a specific memory. If you gave the person the drug, and then stimulated the memories you wanted them to loose by making them talk about it, for instance. If the drug was designed to work on the neurons that were firing while the drug was active, that could work. You'd still have problems with the fuzzy nature of memory, though, and the way memories are stored in different parts of the brain. It's a redundant system. But using this method would also have a built in explanation for how the memory could return.
Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :
Following on from Deb's thought, I think the drug would need to be specific because if the character lost all long term memory that would include language, for example, as well as any special skills and knowledge that made him a secret agent: he or she would not be able to function in this state.
The movie 'Paycheck' had an ingenious solution to this. There were two drugs. The first was a kind of 'marker', and the second erased all long term memories acquired since the marker injection. Some kind of nanotechnology, as was suggested earlier, performing the marker function might also be believeable.
Just 2c, Pat
Posted by The G-Bus Man (Member # 6019) on :
I noticed a few movies that have this being mentioned - Paycheck, Manchurian Candidate, that one episode of House...don't know if Total Recall was mentioned but I think it was. But I'm surprised that no one's mentioned Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (perhaps I shouldn't be surprised since it seems like no one saw that move ), which actually delves into more of the real science of memory removal than any of the other movies and really is more about memory modification itself moreso than merely the consequences of amnesia like the others.
Posted by JamieFord (Member # 3112) on :
Versed. It's a real drug. It's what they give patients in the ER just before they set a broken bone. (Or various other procedures with LOTS of pain). It causes temporary memory loss. It hurts, but you don't remember it. Sort of like a tree falling in the forest making a sound, isn't it. Except in this case, the sound is a person screaming "AAAAAGGGH THAT HURTS!!!!"
Posted by NoTimeToThink (Member # 5174) on :
Let's go back to something debhoag said (after the tequila).
quote: ...a memory that involves several different aspects of the brain - taste, sight, sound, smell, would all have bits of the memory stored in different places.
Zero - you want the wipe to fail and the memories to start coming back.
Since pieces of an individual memory can be all over the place, the wipers could take care of the brain's "index" and also get portions of the memory, but miss a component. The memory is still there, but he has to find a different trigger; he smells a household cleaner and a memory starts coming back along secondary links, gradually reconstructing itself along different pathways than usual, sort of like what happens when someone suffers brain damage and has to learn to do everyday things over again, redirecting pathways.
Posted by debhoag (Member # 5493) on :
for someone who has no time to think, you're pretty darn sharp!
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
Excellent, yes, yes I love it. Thanks for all the help and ideas!
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
That's sort of how it worked in - Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. (See, two of us watched it).
Jim Carey's character decided to fight the memory wipe and "hid" the memory. Because he was able to save part of the memory, he could reconstruct it and help the girl do the same.
Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
Notime, I love that idea. Using computer analogies, you could just erase the index - the pointers to the memories...and have the character have to rebuild the index via associations he re-experiences or pieces back together via the different triggers. Excellent!
And I have seen Eternal Sunshine! I found it interesting. It was one of those movies that really stuck with me for a long time, which is typically a good thing, but I also found myself really worried during part of the movie (I have a thing about gore in film - can't tolerate it - and was worried at one point that there was going to be some) so that distracted me. It was an excellent movie, though. I think based on a book, right?
), which actually delves into more of the real science of memory removal than any of the other movies and really is more about memory modification itself moreso than merely the consequences of amnesia like the others.
I found it interesting. It was one of those movies that really stuck with me for a long time, which is typically a good thing, but I also found myself really worried during part of the movie (I have a thing about gore in film - can't tolerate it - and was worried at one point that there was going to be some) so that distracted me. It was an excellent movie, though. I think based on a book, right?