Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Chapter question

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Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

In my current WiP, my chapter lengths have been between 2000 and 4000 words. Now I'm at chapter 9 and I want to go onto chapter 10 after only 447 words. Would that be acceptable, or should I try to make it longer? These words can't be tagged onto the end of chapter 8, as it's unrelated, and without a huge leap, could not be incorporated into what I need to write next.

So, is a 447 word chapter ok?

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

You can have a chapter that is one word long, if you really want to!

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

You could just paste it on to the end of the last chapter or the beginning of the next one...but you can defer that till you revise the text. Four hundred and forty seven words seems a bit short for much of anything---how many scenes are contained within it, and within your two-to-four thousand chapters? How many characters? How many different places do they appear in?

Posted by gobi13x (Member # 6837) on :

I would say that while 447 chapter is fine in same cases, it might stick out among the rest of the book. Maybe that is what you are trying to do for a special reason.

Posted by JFLewis (Member # 6957) on :

I don't know if you've read any of The Secrets e-zine by Michael Stackpole, but it's very useful stuff. It's all about wriring/publishing and the issues are not very expensive.

One of the articles (I *think* it was in The Secrets Newsletter) is about chapters and chapter breaks. The gist of the article is to remind writers that each time you end a chapter, you have given your reader a natural point where they can easily put down the book and possibly, having put down the book, never pick it up again.

I took that advice to mean that chapters can be any length so long as you know why your chapter is so short and that you make certain the effect you're going for is worth the opportunity you provide the reader to stop reading.

It also has some cool stuff explaining why you sound end chapters in the first place. They are basically hard transition points. Are you swapping POVs? Are you skipping ahead in time? Chnaging locations? All of those are good reasons.

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

Yes.

Posted by darklight (Member # 5213) on :

Thanks guys. Taking all your comments into consideration, I'm probably going to make it a little longer, but will wait until the editing process. The problem with this chapter is, it's a transition from the MC indetifying the problem, to him doing something about it. He has to explain to a group of people something that he has already explained to another character, so I want to aviod repeating myself, but at the same time, he needs to convince these poeple to help him. I could maybe make the convincing process a little more arduous.

Thanks for the comments.

Posted by JamieFord (Member # 3112) on :

Sorry. If it were 448 words you'd be fine, otherwise...no way.

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

quote:
Sorry. If it were 448 words you'd be fine, otherwise...no way.

I think you ought to take the question seriously, rather than try to get a cheap laugh.

It is well known that 449 words IS the minimum chapter length.

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

James D. Macdonald put it this way:

"How many pages in a chapter?

This is as close to a meaningless question as you can get. It's like "How many letters in a word?" or "How many words in a sentence?"

I've seen novels with chapters ranging from a fraction of a page to the entire book being one long chapter.

Listen: Words are symbols for ideas or concepts. Sentences are made of words. Sentences convey thoughts through the relationships among the words. (A fraction of a word may be a sentence.)

Paragraphs are made of sentences. The paragraph is the smallest unit of meaning in a novel. The meaning comes from the relationships among the sentences. (A fraction of a sentence may be a paragraph.)

Scenes are made out of paragraphs. There are no fractional paragraphs. The meaning of the scene comes from the relationships among the paragraphs that make up the scene.

Chapters are made out of scenes. There are no fractional scenes. The meaning of the chapter comes from the relationships among the scenes.

How many pages in a chapter? How many scenes do you have, how long are they, and how do they relate to one another? At the point where one scene doesn't relate to the one that follows, put a chapter break.

The reader's mind can hold only a limited number of things at once. The reader's interest keeps moving. You should strive to make the source of information be the same as the source of interest.

And that's how long a chapter is."

For myself, I feel that varied chapter lengths can help break up the monotony a bit, if not overdone. I say don't be afraid to mix things up a little. The book won't be rejected because of chapter lengths, and your editor will tell you if it doesn't work.

[This message has been edited by lehollis (edited November 14, 2007).]

Posted by wrenbird (Member # 3245) on :

Instead of having it be a whole chapter just have it be an obviously seperate end of chapter 8 or beginning of chapter 9. Do that little * thing.
You know. . .

* * *

And now you start with the 447 words. Most readers accept this as a totally seperate event. Then you wouldn't have to make it a chapter.

Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :

Or just make it a chapter if you feel like it should be one.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

James D. Macdonald or John D. Macdonald?

Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :

quote:
James D. Macdonald
From "Learn Writing With Uncle Jim"
Absolute Write Water Cooler
Novel Writing forum

This guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_D._Macdonald

No comment on what I think of him as a writer, but I agree with that quote. Credit where it is due.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

He's a science fiction author who also teaches writing.

(We used to call him Yog Sysop on GEnie.)