Hi, folks. I have a simple request: I hear about using cliches in books all the time. Why don't we make a list of known ones so we will know how to avoid them? I'm speaking for myself of course because my writing style is quite different from the English-speaking side of the Western world. My home market is too small; if I ever want to succeed as a writer, I need to publish my stuff abroad and I can't do that if my work is bad from your perspective.
Posted by smncameron (Member # 7392) on :
I'm certainly guilty of deriding certain ideas as 'cliched', but I'm not in favour of codifying them. The problem I see is that most great fiction is derivative. The risk of killing a potentially insightful take on a old cliche is simply too great. Consider orphans. How many great works do you know whose protagonists are orphans. What if none of those had been written because they realized that they had borrowed concepts from King Arthur and Oedipus Rex?
Posted by Lynda (Member # 3574) on :
The "orphan as hero" storyline is based on the hero quest story, which Joseph Campbell explained in great detail in his book, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" (there are other books on this topic too). The hero quest novel has a particular format and is one of the oldest story styles (dunno if that's the word I want, but dinner's nearly ready and I'm rushing - I still have to make the salads!) in existence. George Lucas said "Star Wars" is a hero quest and mentioned the Joseph Campbell book when he was talking about it. This storyline has lasted so long because it's satisfying on a lot of levels, IMO. It's my favorite style of story, so I imagine there will always be hero quest stories. Recent examples of this kind of story are Harry Potter and Erderon and many others. Hero loses family, finds mentor, loses mentor, etc. - the same steps (pretty much) in every story of that type.
Oops, dinner's ready - gotta run!
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Just did a google search on "science fiction cliches" and found these links:
How about horror stories that end with a "Surprise! The MC is really a VAMPIRE!"
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
Thanks for the effort of finding these lists. I went through them and realized I want to reshape my question. Now I'm thinking more of the little stuff. For example, use of words when describing people or scenery. Or the character of... characters.
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
How about beginning the story as the hero/heroine wakes up, usually with no memory?
Posted by baduizt (Member # 5804) on :
If you find yourself saying something you say all the time, or which is a phrase, then it's probably a cliche (or at least received wisdom, which is just as bad).
But Jeanette Winterson uses cliche to surprisingly good use in Written on the Body . . .
Adam xxx
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
I guess you are are talking about cliche phrases. There are however so many of these that it is impossible to count or list them. New ones become cliche all the time. The more you read the easier it will be to avoid cliche phrases, so read more.
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
One method of plotting acutally uses those cliche lists. Anyone who is acquainted with the Viable Paradise Workshop would be acquainted with it.
Is it possible that we use cliche because we read? After all, where does cliche come from, if not copying, conscious or otherwise? If a large man is "bear-like" is that because we've all seen bears up close 'n personal? Living in England, I sure haven't.
I suspect you might be more cliche-proof than you think, MartinV, because you haven't read as much English language stuff as those of us whose natural language is English.
Here's another thought. What happens if you take a phrase that's cliche in your own language and translate it into English? I bet it won't sound cliche to native English speakers.
For example, the English might say, of people demoralised, "They're dragging their feet." I understand the Germans say something, well, German, but translated it becomes "They've gone home in their heads." The Germans have heard it (in German) before, but to the English it sounds unique. (Well, it did, but now it's on the internet, so tomorrow it'll be cliche.)
Could it be that your natural voice, translated into English, might be uniquely lacking cliche?
Just 2c, Pat
[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited January 25, 2008).]
Posted by JeanneT (Member # 5709) on :
By that theory, Talespinner, the best writers would be those who had never read, and I don't think it works that way.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited January 25, 2008).]
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
Thanks for that web page, JeaneeT, it is the best one so far.
When I translate my stuff to English I have a problem of literally translating text, even phrases, which is not good. But when I wrote a whole story in English, I didn't have that problem. So my plan is to completely re-write my stories in English. However, TaleSpinners words gave me much to think about. I truly can use my difficulty with English to develop more original details.
You just made me feel better about my writing future, TaleSpinner. Thank you.
