This is topic Sidaharra (reworked, new POV) in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by Ratlance (Member # 1893) on :
 
(Hopefully its better then the last. I would of posted it on the same thread, but I figured it would get lost in posts.)

Watching as each drop of blood seeps out of his hands, and feet to soil the land of Sidaharra. He wanted to shout with all his might, so all could hear his pain. Hanging, nailed to the cross, as a betrayer to his kin… to God, for all to see; the cross that he wore so proudly. Raising his head with a agonizing pain to see his only companion, the moon as it reigns over the sky. “Oh holy father, how I have failed you so.” He whispered, with a pain stricken breath. Slowly slipping from reality as each drip of his blood splashes against the ground. Falling into a deep sleep, trying to tighten his grip upon reality. He finds his strength fading into a dreamlike world, as a blanket of darkness clouds his mind.

I will not die yet, I am not ready God, I will not die yet, do you hear me!
Opening his eyes to see a place of beauty, not sure if it is heaven or hell, but hell could not be as magnificent as this place.
“Father, father, come here hurry!” A child like voice yelled. Turning to see a boy, of maybe the age of eight, frantically digging at the ground.
“Hurry father come look.” The voice echoed again in the wind. Slowly walking toward the boy, he began to realize he is in neither heaven nor hell.
 


Posted by ccwbass (Member # 1850) on :
 
This is a lot longer than 14 lines.
 
Posted by Lord Darkstorm (Member # 1610) on :
 
Better. Maybe it is just me, but for some reason I don't care for the flashback. I think OSC has an example story that tries the same trick. OSC's comment was in essance "why do we care?"

You have a hook concept that says you have to hook the reader. While this is true, it does not have to be blood, gore, action, adventure, or any of the things that come first to mind. I'll borrow an example from OSC's How to write Science Fiction and Fantasy.

quote:
Doro discovered the woman by accident when he went to see what was left of one of his seed villages.

OSC picked this one sentance apart, praising it all the way. The hook is in the first line, and there are a couple. The main one is the "seed villages", which is used to gain the reader's interest and curiosity. Later in the first paragraph there is the remnance of voilence, but it doesn't give the violence, only the aftermath.

The only thing I can suggest is try starting without the flashback concept. Start with the child and see what response you get. You might be surprised.
 


Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :
 
Much better. With the last line added, I get your position with him going into a dream state. This version flows alot better.

But, I hope someone rescues this guy so he doesn't dream for the whole story.
 


Posted by Ratlance (Member # 1893) on :
 
I'm gonna rethink the hole flashback thing and see what I can do. Thanks for the comments, they are very helpful.

[This message has been edited by Ratlance (edited January 22, 2004).]
 


Posted by JBShearer (Member # 9434) on :
 
I don't agree. I think that you lost the power of your prose in the rewrite. You got a little hurried and the first, and it tended to run on. Look for incomplete sentences, decide on clear ideas, and decide what you want to do.

I'm not trying to be harsh - you do have some really amazing ideas that you're trying to sculpt.
 


Posted by somnambulous (Member # 1849) on :
 
Man, i so want to copy-edit that.

Conceptually, I like what you have going here, but it just seems sloppy to me (no offense)...

From the first sentence there is confusion:

quote:
Watching as each drop of blood seeps out of his hands, and feet to soil the land of Sidaharra. He wanted to shout with all his might, so all could hear his pain.

What bothers me, is when this is happening, now or then? You say seeps, then you say wanted. Instantly I'm confused about the time-frame. Also, your first comma has to go...

Watching as each drop of blood seeped out of his hands and feet to soil the land of Sidaharra, he wanted to shout with all his might so all could hear his pain.

Now everything is happening at the same time and we know who's watching.... He is watching.

Hanging, nailed to the cross, as a betrayer to his kin… to God, for all to see; the cross that he wore so proudly.

Who's hanging? This sentence is really a bit of a mess. Is the cross hanging nailed to the cross? That's pretty much how it reads. Or did that thought die with the elipses?

Whenever you start a sentence with an "ing" word, whatever comes after the next comma is generally the thing that is X-ing

Raising his head with an agonized pain to see his only companion, the moon, as it reigned over the sky, “Oh holy father, how I have failed you so,he whispered with a pain-stricken breath. Slowly slipping from reality as each drop of his blood splashed against the ground, he fell into a deep sleep, trying to tighten his grip upon reality. He found his strength fading into a dreamlike world as a blanket of darkness clouded his mind.

You do it again with the word Raising here but your run-on sentence sort of makes it work. Then you do it with Opening later on... You don't tell us what/who is opening... I wish I could remember the term for what it is you're doing, but I didn't go to catholic school where they drill syntax into your skull.

Anyway, that's what I'd do to this fragment with a red pen. Like I said, I really like what you have going here. Your descriptions are vivd and compelling once understood and hte story is intriguing, but your syntax is just confusing. With a personal copy-editor, I think you have some great stuff here.

I don't think the folks who stop by here really concern themselves much with syntax, but I doubt many editors would get very far into this before giving up.

[This message has been edited by somnambulous (edited January 22, 2004).]
 


Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
OK, I'm posting this before reading the other replied because I always think it's only fair to give you MY honest imput.

It doesn't feel like you switched to 3rd person, it feels like you rpeliaced the I's with he's. Part of the point of a 34d person viewpoint is that there is no reason to skip to the end scene before telling us the beginning. In first person, there is an argument for this because the narrator, "I", knows the information. In third person you should tell it in order.

My interest is already a little piqued by the knife the kid finds. If you didn't have the first paragraph, I'd read a little further to find out what was up with that. If you're looking to manufacture a way to keep us reading, stop. Start at the beginning and tell your story. A mystery, a death, some danger, some romance, all of these can keep us reading until the end when we get to the guy on the cross, at which point the scene will be far more dramatic.

Added later: Now that I go back and read the other posts I see you probably already got this message. Still, one of my biggest problems with the fragments and feedback section is that the first critique is the only honest one. Everyone else tends to draw on or at least be influence by the other critiques as much by the passage. It's a practice we really need to end.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited January 22, 2004).]
 


Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
Wow...34th person viewpoint. Now there's a novel idea. And 34 "d" yet. I wonder how that works.

(Just ragging on you, Christine. Some typos are just so hilarious. )
 


Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
 
LOL

OK, I could go and edit that and fix it but then no one would know what you were talking about
 


Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
Wouldn't be the first time.
 
Posted by Ratlance (Member # 1893) on :
 
Ya my grammer sucks, im gonna start studying it more. I am gonna start it in order too, the hole dramatic scene is giving me alot of problems now.

Thanks for all the feedback, it's what I needed to start my story.
 


Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
 
Ccwbass, I count 15 lines, and I don't think I'm going to trim it for just that much.

Somnambulous, I think they're called "dangling participles."

A couple of examples that might make the idea clearer:

"Being so awkward in a sentence, I never use dangling participles."

"Running through the forest, the tree roots kept tripping him."
 


Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :
 
"Being so awkward in a sentence, I never use dangling participles."

I gotta ask, Kathleen, what is that makes you awkward in sentences?
 


Posted by somnambulous (Member # 1849) on :
 
"Running through the forest, the tree roots kept tripping him."

Now I'm curious, is that correct? Is it the subject of the sentnce fragment "the tree roots kept tripping him" (in this case "him") or is it the first thing after the comma ("the tree roots") that is "running" in this sentence?

Syntactically speaking, are the tree roots running or is the subject, "him" running?

I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't think anyone would misunderstand that sentence, but is it CORRECT?

All these details have turned hazy to me over the years.
 


Posted by Phanto (Member # 1619) on :
 
quote:
for all to see; the cross that he wore so proudly.

Rhyming = Bad in novels.


 


Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
 
"Running through the forest, the tree roots kept tripping him."

quote:
Is it the subject of the sentnce fragment "the tree roots kept tripping him" (in this case "him") or is it the first thing after the comma ("the tree roots") that is "running" in this sentence?

If you're asking "Is the subject of the sentence fragment or the first thing after the comma doing the running?", your question, as you phrased it, bears some comment. The answer, though, is "him" is running (Of course we know that means "he" to be grammatically correct.)

However, regarding your phraseology, I wondered if you meant "the tree roots kept tripping him" was a sentence fragment insofar as it was only a part of the sentence, or if you meant it was a grammatic error because it was not a full sentence (subject, verb). If the former, yes, it could be considered a fragment of the sentence, but if the latter, no, it happens to be the main part of the sentence and could be a sentence all on its own. Your Word program would not flag it as "Fragment. Consider revising."

That said, the subject of "the tree roots kept tripping him" is not "him" but "roots." I believe "him" is the object of the sentence.

Had the entire sentence been written correctly, the "first thing after the comma" would have been "him," since he was doing the running, but to restructure the sentence to do that, "him" would have become "he": Running through the forest, he kept tripping on tree roots.

The sentence would have been just as wrong to have been written as "He kept tripping on tree roots running through the forest." Beware the dangling participle.

All that said, had this sentence been in one of the Treebeard scenes in Lord of the Rings, it might have worked as is.

<I gotta stop this already.>
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited January 23, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited January 23, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited January 23, 2004).]
 




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