Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Does the Prologue help or Hinder?

This is topic Does the Prologue help or Hinder? in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

OOPS!

The subject line SHOULD read "The City of Silver". Sorry, my badneth.

OOPS AGAIN!

About 4400 words. Some good.

--------------------

I have a Prologue and a partial first chapter of a fantasy novel for someone to read and answer the question above. Actually, I'd like several opinions, if enough people are interested.

Pretty please?

Here are the first few lines of the Prologue and the first few lines of Chapter 1 of The City of Silver:

A Prologue to Change

The flood of human life is often likened to a river. It pulses, waxes and wanes according to rhythms older than man. In the eyes of those sufficiently far away, the many-stranded flow of human life seems much the same; it too waxes and wanes. As compared to this great flow, the lives of individuals are not often visible except when the restless current flings small lives briefly into view. ...

...

Chapter 1 - Change In The Wind

The end of Clan Therios came shortly after dawn, in that sweet morning air that is the child of night and the harbinger of summer.

...

Thankee kindly,

Mike

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited July 29, 2004).]

Posted by Cathy Perdue (Member # 7987) on :

I'll read, but probably won't get a response to you until late Sunday Aug 1.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Yeah, a simple yes/no could be fun. One thing to note, your current prologue opening is a bit unclear, you say the "flood of human life" seems much like "the many-stranded flow of human life". Of course, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that these two terms are synonymous.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Cool! Thanks, Survivor, for the comment. I bet you're a good swimmer. ;-)

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

I'm intrigued. Send it over, please.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

I'm interested. If you can get it to me before Friday afternoon I can take it camping with me this weekend, have it back to you Monday or Tuesday.

I prefer Word doc sent as an attachment.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Thanks so much, guys. The prologue was written to specifically address issues that previous critiquers had with the first chapter. However, I have since heard that many people dislike prologues.

For my part, I will often skip the prologue, until I have been drawn into a story, and then I'll go back and read it.

Mike

Posted by NewsBys (Member # 1950) on :

I don't mind short prologues that begin chapters. I usually read them for clues about what is going to happen in the chapter. I have seen it done well in several books. I think in the right instances they add a deeper feeling to the milieu. Of course if you wanted to go that route, you would need to attribute the prologue to one of the characters or some other source from the milieu.
The real question is, will a publisher be willing to publish a manuscript from a new writer that contains prologues?

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Good question. My feeling is no, a publisher would prefer not to. And, basically, as an inexperienced writer, I probably have no business trying to write one. Which is OK. The info generated can just be background material that I keep in mind as I generate more text.

By the way, if anyone cares, on the question of whether the prologue helps or hinders, the vote is currently: Hinders=1 Helps=0.

Actually the vote is that the Prologue hinders and my writing generally sucks. :-(

Actually, I'm quite embarassed, not by my writing (how can I expect to be good on the first try?) but by that fact that I have apparently inflicted poor writing on persons of good will, who are being helpful.

So, if anyone else looks at this, don't waste your time reading my work, yet. I'll ask for more help when it improves.

Thanks!

PS If you're already looking at it, please do respond, anyway, and don't feel it is necessary to pull any punches, I won't be offended. I will learn from anything you have to say!!!

Mike

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited July 30, 2004).]

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

My vote is: prologue helps but needs to be significantly shorter. Your writing doesn't suck.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I would echo that last comment. Your writing is overdone, it tends to blow rather than suck. I wonder if that means somthing dirty...probably.

Anyway, "hyperexpostulates" would be more accurate.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

>>>Anyway, "hyperexpostulates" would be more accurate.<<<

ROFL!!

Hah! I love it! Great repartee, Survivor!

And you know what? I'm going to keep on writing anyway!

Say! When I get it down to just "overexpostulates" would you be willing to look it over again?

Really.

Mike

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

I searched the web for a while to see if I could find out what "it blows" means, but with limited success. However, there are common usages such as "that blows chunks" that mean something like "as obnoxious as vomit". On the other hand, there was a site which used "Oh, man. That blows!" as being a sympathetic expression.

However, I think Survivor probably meant it to mean something more like the "that blows chunks".

Hope I didn't put you off your food, Survivor.

No?

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Hmmm...I was really using it as more the literal opposite of "sucks". Then I came up with the term "hyperexpostulate" instead. But there is something slightly...breathy, about the prose. Like a starlet saying her lines with a heaving chest. Interesting for a line or two, but really kind of overmuch after a while.

Anyway, I'm betting that you don't speak or write this way in everyday life, I haven't noticed any histrionics in your posts, at any rate. So I'd guess that you can tone it down quite easily.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Oh! My dear Survivor! Yes! Although I adore the rhythyms of the spoken word, the modulations and the meaningful pauses. Yes!

quote:
Her companion was startling, at first, in the physical beauty that showed through the dirt. Helmut could have been a god, from the waist up, and if his inner spirit had matched even that half he would have commanded armies, owned lands, and inspired fear. As it was he inspired only contempt in those who viewed him now. For if ever a man could have overcome the deformity of the twisted, stunted legs that bore him, surely the man of that face could have. Surely the man who wore that noble visage would encounter life head on, and demand respect, even from his enemies. But the man who crouched at Marta's side, trembling, was a thief. He stole hope from all who looked at him and saw the groveling wretch he was. He stole dreams from the eyes of the young and brave memories from the old; for he was a man who feared, above all, feared life and living.

"Helmut, on the other hand, was not impressive. He was physically handsome, but the first thing people noticed about him was that he was afraid. It showed in the way he stood, in the way he often looked ahead, then furtively, behind. People disliked him on sight because his fear stirred theirs. He scared them."

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

While I agree that you could trim things, I really miss this.

quote:
He stole hope from all who looked at him and saw the groveling wretch he was. He stole dreams from the eyes of the young and brave memories from the old; for he was a man who feared, above all, feared life and living.

You had just asked us to tell you if the prologue was needed or not. Do you want me to go back and talk about style too?

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

MaryRobinette

Anything you and anyone else have to say, I am willing to learn from. If you have the time and the willingness to do more, then YES, PLEASE! and THANK YOU!!!!!!

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Helmut Redux

quote:
Helmut, on the other hand, was not impressive. He was physically handsome, but the first thing people noticed about him was that he was afraid. It showed in the way he stood, in the way he often looked ahead, then furtively, behind. People disliked him on sight because his fear stirred theirs. He scared them.
Worse, he was a thief. He stole hope when they saw the hopeless wretch he was. He stole dreams from the eyes of the young and brave memories from the old. For although Helmut was young and handsome, he was mostly just a man who feared, above all; feared life and living.

There, I think that's better. Survivor, may I ask your opinion yet once more? Please? You don't have to like it, just let me know if you think it is improving.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I do think this is a much better version, partly because you don't go overboard about his god-like appearance and partly because you give information about the particular sort of good looks he has, a youthful appearance.

Of course, eventually you'll need to figure out what POV you're using

Someone is going to have to join the boards with the user name "POV Nazi" so that everyone can first wonder if it is me and then we can all have a showdown to see who is the strictest about POV.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Oh, I think omniscient 3rd works, at the moment, or at least until I learn what that means! :-)

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

Hey Mike. I just sent back your critiqued story and received an email saying it's been put in you 'suspect email' folder. What! Don't you love me anymore? Don't you want me in your address book? Boo-hoo-hoo!

Anyway, just so you know it's there.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Sigh. It's my spamblocker. Good heart, but kinda over-zealous, if you know what I mean. Give me a minute to kick his butt and tell him you're OK, even if you ARE a writer.