Hatrack River Writers Workshop: You shoot your own dog, don't you?

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Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Literary fiction (or whatever it is), approx. 785 words, crits requested.

Here are the first few lines. Do they hook you?
--------------------------------------------

"You shoot your own dog, don't you?" the old man next to me asked. "If he was doin' wrong, you wouldn't wait for others to kill him, you'd shoot him yourself, wouldn't you?"

My eyes went wide. _No one talks on the bus. Especially not to strangers._ I looked at him. I met his eyes, my first mistake.

He tried again. "If your dog went bad. If he went bad and was killing your neighbor's chickens, and if you raised him from a pup, you'd kill him yourself, wouldn't you? You wouldn't just let some stranger do it? What if they missed and gut-shot him? He'd hurt real bad!"

Leaning closer, his old blue eyes intent, he asked, "You're a lawyer, aren't you? Lawyers know these things, don't they?"

I had no real excuse for it, but I looked at him as coldly as my 30 years ever could look upon the aged. "Yes, but I practice corporate law. Corporations don't keep dogs.", and I turned back to my Barron's and hid there.

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited April 21, 2005).]

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

You only lost me on one thing: when the narrator thought, No one talks on the bus. It made me wonder if he's crazy, since I do hear people talk on buses.

I'll also suggest that the narrator is so repulsive I can't get past that to wonder wtf this old guy is talking about shooting dogs for. This may be a Southern thing: cutting old people slack is part of my culture.

However, the writing works and if I could get past this to wonder why the old guy's dog-obsessed -- unless he's crazy -- I'd want to keep reading.

[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited April 21, 2005).]

Posted by MCameron (Member # 2391) on :

I for one knew exactly what you meant by people not talking on buses. I have been in situations similar to this while riding city buses in Tucson. Although my encounters tended to be with paranoid schizophrenics and other mentally ill people (lots of those around here

) Fun times.

I'd like to read it. You have me intrigued. I'm sensing a strong influence from Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men. Is this deliberate?

--Mel

[This message has been edited by MCameron (edited April 21, 2005).]

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Wbriggs

quote:
You only lost me on one thing: when the narrator thought, No one talks on the bus. It made me wonder if he's crazy, since I do hear people talk on buses.
I'll also suggest that the narrator is so repulsive I can't get past that to wonder wtf this old guy is talking about shooting dogs for. This may be a Southern thing: cutting old people slack is part of my culture.

No one talks on my bus! If you do, the stuffed suits look at you sideways, and lean away as though you are contaminated. It's very strange. Getting off the bus at the end of the day, when we get back to the park and ride, is even stranger. Everyone waits in dead silence while the first person aisle seat left side arranges his/her things and stands, then poses for a moment, then carefully nods at the driver, then gets off. Then it's the right-side aisle seat's turn, the left side window seat's turn, the the right-side window seat's turn, and it goes on from there. It drives me mad. I have been acused of scratching people to ensure that I get a seat near the front so I don't have drown in my own impatience before it is my turn, in turn (always in turn) to get up.

These people are so anal-retentive that they must schedule their bowel movements around their golf dates. Arghh!

quote:
However, the writing works and if I could get past this to wonder why the old guy's dog-obsessed -- unless he's crazy -- I'd want to keep reading.

Can you get past now? It's only 785 words!

MCameron

quote:
I'm sensing a strong influence from Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men. Is this deliberate?

If I could write like that I would have myself framed and hung.

On the wall! Hung and framed on the wall so I could admire myself! LOL

In a word, yes.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

lol... I rode the Tri-Met bus to work for quite a while and while, yes, people talk on the bus, they are talking about mundane things like their jobs, what they are doing after work, and usually only conversing with people they ride with day after day.

On the other hand, you don't bring up topics like shooting dogs without making everyone avert their eyes and scramble for something to pretend to be reading. I would say Mike's characterization is good.

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

Hey Mike,
May I read it?
(I'm happy to read anything you write.)

The first line may need to be 'You'd shoot ...etc"

For a moment I thought 'shooting the dog" may have been a mechanical or oil-drilling term. This may be what OSC means when he says not to open with dialogue. Dialogue is meaningless without context. The dialogue could be much stronger if was preceeded by even a sketchy set-up.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited April 21, 2005).]

Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :

yeah, I knew exactly what Mike meant about not talking to people on the bus.

I love the title.

How'd the crazy old guy know the narrator is a lawyer?

I'm already committed to reading too many other things right now, but if you're not in a hurry, I'd be happy to read the rest. It's a good beginning.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your willingness to look at this. I think your questions are answered in the text.

Posted by limo (Member # 2470) on :

I enjoyed it and the first few lines did hook me. If you need another reader I'll volunteer, but if not cool.
**********************
You shoot your own dog, don't you?" the old man next to me asked. "If he was doin' wrong, you wouldn't wait for others to kill him, you'd shoot him yourself, wouldn't you?"
DON’T THINK THE FIRST SENTENCE WORKS, SOUNDS LIKE IT SHOULD BE “YOU’D”

My eyes went wide. _No one talks on the bus. Especially not to strangers._ I looked at him. I met his eyes, my first mistake.
NICE BIT HERE

Leaning closer, his old blue eyes intent, he asked, "You're a lawyer, aren't you? Lawyers know these things, don't they?"
THIS BIT IS WEIRD, HOW DOES HE KNOW THE GUY’S A LAWYER? WHY WOULD HE WANT A LAWYERS ANSWER TO A MORAL QUESTION.

I had no real excuse for it, but I looked at him as coldly as my 30 years ever could look upon the aged. "Yes, but I practice corporate law. Corporations don't keep dogs." and I turned back to my Barron's and hid there.
THE FIRST LINE OF THIS PARAGRAPH IS COMPLICATED AND COULD BE SIMPLIFIED TO MAKE THE MEANING CLEAR.

[This message has been edited by limo (edited April 22, 2005).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

The story is about the crazy old guy anyway, the "narrator" in this case is simply there to hear the old man out. Since the guy is apparently going to confess to killing (or planning to kill) his son or some such thing, there may be some minor action required of the POV character, but not necessarily.

At under a 1000 words, sure I'll read it. I do agree on the "No one talks on the bus" nit. Something more specific and universal, like "you don't just ask a stranger if he shoots his own dog, that's well past eccentric no matter how old you are." And it is hard to believe in a character so dull he would try to hide behind a textbook in this situation. At the same time, there really are a lot of people that stupid.

Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :

I think "Barron's" is a financial magazine, not a textbook.

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

I'll read it.

I share hoptoad's concern about opening with dialogue. I'd be more comfortable with a little bit of context before the line. As it is, I picture a hillbilly in the sticks and then it's disorienting to realize we're on a bus. But for your narrator, he's on a bus and then it's disorienting for him to have this guy come out of nowhere asking about shooting dogs. It creates a disconnection between me and the narrator.

Posted by benskia (Member # 2422) on :

Liked it a lot.
I'll read.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Thank you all. On the way.

Posted by jimmyjazz951 (Member # 2443) on :

If you could another, I'll read it.

Posted by Robyn_Hood (Member # 2083) on :

I don't mind opening with dialogue, but I did have to read that first sentence a few times before I was sure I was reading it right. It may need to be re-worked slightly to avoid that.

No one talks on the bus...while I know this isn't the case because I occassionally do talk to people, I know the image you are creating. If you had not prefaced this by saying it was literary, I could almost see it being a futuristic or alternate reallity type setup -- No one talks on the bus; [i]they[i] can shoot you for talking on the bus! Okay, my mind is way out there this morning .

I know you have plenty of offers to read, but if you need more let me know. Or keep me in mind for round two.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

On the way. Thanks.

Posted by jhust (Member # 2499) on :

I like it, particularly the dialogue, but I don't think it hooks. It comes off more "that was weird" than it does, "holy cow!"

To me, either:
1) the old guy is just a loon
2) he's saying something prophetic to the lawyer

Having either of these confirmed in the passage via the lawyer's thoughts would make it more interesting to me.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

It's both. He's both looney and prophetic. And the guy who said he was a lawyer is pathetic in his desire to fit in with the suits, and learns that the hard way.

Even good writing of very short stories(which I'm not saying this is) whould be hard to present in just a few lines, and this one is no exception. As you can read in the other posts, I should have set up the scene better before starting the dialogue. Thus, the hooklessness.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

Yeah, I'd keep reading.

Can I?

Posted by Kazander42 (Member # 2505) on :

I would really like to read this, it has caught me up!

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Thank you. On the way.

Posted by MCameron (Member # 2391) on :

*inspects inbox* Nope, still not there.

Um, Mike...I didn't get it. Could you resend please?

--Mel

Posted by Lanius (Member # 2482) on :

Though you already have a sack-load of volunteers, I'd be happy to read it as well.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

On the way, Mel, Lanius.

Posted by onepktjoe (Member # 2352) on :

Hi Mike,

If you still need readers, I'm definitely interested.

Joe

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

On the way.

Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :

I don't have time to crit the whole thing today, but I'll comment on your frag.

This hook has two things going for it:

First, you've got immediate conflict. The narrator doesn't want to get involved, and we can understand why.

Second, you've got the promise of serious conflict later in the story. This is more than just a promise of violence (shooting a dog) but of moral conflict (shooting your own dog).

This promises to be a good story. I hope you deliver on that promise. I also hope you explain why these two characters found themselves on the same bus in the first place.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Doc

quote:
I also hope you explain why these two characters found themselves on the same bus in the first place.

You have pegged one of the weaknesses! Thanks for poo=inting it out.

mike

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Hey, Mike touch types his backspace key! I feel such a bond now.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

finally, we have a,=boo=nd!

James Bond, that is.

Posted by enwalker (Member # 2515) on :

I am inclined to agree with the person who suggested you start with "You'd shoot..."

Beyond that, I find this a strong and chilling hook, as I immediately suspect the old man isn't talking about dogs at all, but about killing a person - maybe his child.

Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :

I would offer to read, mike, but it looks like you've got plenty of offers already. Too bad. It looks good.

I loved Of Mice and Men and I love how you wove the reference into the story. Very nice.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Oh my. Someone figured that out. I'm impressed! LOL On the way.

Posted by Callia (Member # 2524) on :

Hi Mike,
almost didn't post anything as you have so many to look at, and what could i possibly say to you other than i really liked it, and would love to read more. by the way, i rode the tube in london a lot and people really don't engage in conversation with anyone on the tube, unless of course you know them by heart. They take seat and either look down at their shoes, or pretend to look up at the tube lines scheduling gizmo so that don't ever have to look at someone in the eyes. So i would love to read more of you story. But out of curiosity, how did the old coot know that the narrator was a lawyer?

Posted by RavenStarr (Member # 2327) on :

I liked it, it didn't lose me at all. wbriggs mostly just confuses me beause I related with the entire situation that you mentioned...
In Detroit, you don't talk or make eye contact with anyone, especially not strangers... especially not old strangers...

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Thanks, Callia, you picked out one of the weak points of the story.

Raven, the bit about talking on the bus (or not) seems to be a bone of contention among the people who have looked at this so far. I guess the talking or not talking is a regional thing (perhaps even specific to a section of a city) and for that reason I may have to take it out. If I want to publish this, it has to have near universal appeal in the editor's eyes, OR be just the kind of thing they happened to be looking for at the moment.