This is topic Fluffy Omelets in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by smulligan (Member # 2953) on :
 
First time writer...it's a working title...

“What do you feel like?” the man wearing a brown jacket asked the woman in a gray pea coat. They were both holding small plastic menus, sitting across each other inside a cramped restaurant. “Oh, I don’t know. The omelets look good,” she said, pointing her finger to another table. “Do they?" he said, turning his head. "I forgot my glasses. Do they look fluffy? I hate fluffy egg.” “No, they look flat. I know how you like your omelet, dear,” the woman answered, slowly unbuttoning her coat. “I like them the same way.”

I made it all one paragraph to comply with the 13 line rule. I need critiques, however harsh. Let me know if you'de like the full version. I'd be glad to send it! You don't get much from these first thirteen lines, but i assure you a story develops.
 


Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
 
Is there any reason to hide these people's names from us? I'd much rather start identifying them (inside my mind) as people, rather than mannequins sporting pea green coats or whatever.

So far, it's not a hook. So he dislikes fluffy eggs. And she knows his tastes. It's a little mundane for me. I need to know: "why should I care about these people?" Toss me a few reasons.

Oh... and give us an idea of what the genre and wordcount are? Is this the beginning 13? Or something in the middle? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Elan (edited October 25, 2005).]
 


Posted by Paul-girtbooks (Member # 2799) on :
 
Why are you telling the reader what type of clothes they're wearing? I don't care. As Elan said, I'd much rather know their names. Later on you'll no doubt reveal the names anyway, so unless there is some big, mysterious reason for not revealing them now, well, then, reveal them!

Two folks discussing omelets? Sorry, no. Unless is was conveyed with side-splittingly funny dialog I wouldn't read on.
 


Posted by thedeathkillersareback (Member # 2894) on :
 
I agree with everything said. You focus too much on the physical description of the characters and I would like to see names. As a writer, you have a good eye for detail, but you must also be a storyteller and focus that eye on the details that push the story forward. Does the clothing description and omelette talk move the story forward?

As it stands I have no sense of your POV. This is partly because all the pronouns distance me from the characters and because you've started the story with two characters who have an equal amount of page time and are involved in conversation.

 


Posted by smulligan (Member # 2953) on :
 
Perhaps i should have clarified. This is a short story, only 7 pages long. The characters have no names. It is just a man and a woman eating breakfast in a restaurant. I'm not sure I agree that a story needs to start with a hook. Perhaps, pertaining to this forum, a hook would certainly help. As for the comment on description--that is an issue I seem to struggle with. I tend to set up a scene too much, feeling the reader can't fill in the details themselves. I'm not sure I have a true grasp on how to make the reader see your characters without rattling off a boring description.
 
Posted by thedeathkillersareback (Member # 2894) on :
 
First off, thanks for clarifying.

Secondly, seven pages is still a large commitment to ask a reader to make without giving character names. You figure it takes someone anywhere from fifteen minutes on up to read your story, not just glance at it, but read it and become emmersed in it. That's a long time for someone to go without having identifiers for the characters. Another way to look at it would be in "real world" terms. When you meet someone for the first time what is one of the first things that pops up? Names. I can't recall sitting and speaking with someone for five minutes, much less fifteen minutes or longer without getting their name.

Thirdly, and I'm asking an honest question, how many published stories (short or otherwise) have you read that do not have a hook in the first page or so (If you know of any please let me know because I would like to read them and study them)? Novels can usually take a little longer (Two to three pages) to establish a hook, but short stories usually get to it within the first paragraph.

Last but not least: when it comes to description think of showing characters through action and dialogue that moves the story forward instead of telling us about the character through description. There are some amazing books that are quick reads that cover this ground. Some of my favorites include: "Character and Viewpoint" by Orson Scott Card, "Conflict, Action & suspense" by William Noble and "The Craft of Writing" by William Sloane. Hope this helps.

Good luck.
 


Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
 
Actually, quite a lot of published stories, short and novel-length, manage without an instant hook.

But they're usually from established authors. Once an editor (and readers) know and trust your work, then selling to them is a lot easier. But you need to establish yourself first; and there are a million other writers trying to do the same thing. If you want to be published, you have to grab the editor's attention (and make the editor believe you'll grab a reader's attention).


PS - even seven pages is going to be a long time to read about a couple who are just "he" and "she". It can be done, and has been done by giants of literature. But, hey, they're giants of literature...

[This message has been edited by tchernabyelo (edited October 25, 2005).]
 


Posted by smulligan (Member # 2953) on :
 
A good example on all points would be Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants". The characters aren't named and there is no hook in the first few paragraphs. Now, of course, that is Hemingway and he can do whatever he wants. But the fact remains that his short story seems to set precedent. There are many others, but that one is a perfect example. With that being said, I agree with alot of the things you said, realizing I am no Hemingway.
 
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
 
Well, you can do what you want, of course! But you will lose readers, I'm sure. Based on reactions so far, a good number.
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Hemingway had an eye for details that told us instantly all kinds of key things about the characters and their relationship. So much so that everyone can instantly tell what their talking about even though the guy keeps saying things like "just let the air in".

We can guess, from your dialog, that this man and woman have a relationship of some kind. But we have no idea what kind, other than that it involves her knowing how he likes his eggs. But all the details you give about them seem totally irrelevant.

I suppose that's the difference between you and Hemingway. One thing that isn't different is that a number of writers around here who really loath this kind of writing, even from Hemingway.

I like his writing, even though I feel little desire to adopt his obvious oddities for myself. The thing is, no great writer was ever great because of obvious idiosyncracies. Sometimes they are great despite them. Imitating the superficial elements of a writer will only get you a superficial imitation. I know that's a tautology, but by that very token you should recognize that it is true.
 


Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
 
Any attempt to immitate Hemingway will get you laughed at as an amateur, inept writer.

Hemingway's style was horrible, but because of his consistancy and incredible imagry and characters that he could only transcribe by actually having been there and done that, he pulls it off and makes it look like mastery.

To emulate Hemingway: first you must have lived like he did. And if you live like he did, you will probably die like he did. The man's life had no other possible direction.*

I believe that as writer's go, Hemmingway was unique.

*Okay so he killed himself because he got alzheimers or something similar and couldnt remember the stories he wanted to write.

[This message has been edited by pantros (edited October 25, 2005).]
 


Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
I think that one has to separate his prose style from his narrative habits, many of which were rather...obtuse.
 


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