Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Outleaf opening

This is topic Outleaf opening - yet again in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

Sci fi novel, not finished, this is the first thirteen lines. I'm trying a different scene to begin with, one that has more action in it. Is this working? Are you hooked? Keep in mind it is a novel, not a short, but I am trying to start in an interesting spot. I hope I've succeeded.

quote:
Proty first realized he was jealous of his father’s love for the hometree on the day of the outleaf trial for the viner. It wasn’t easy to be the son of the Treespeaker. Everyone in the hometree’s village assumed that Proty loved the hometree just as much as his father, Baro, did. They believed him eager to assume the destined, hallowed role, when his father retired one day. They were wrong. The problem was, Proty hadn’t told anyone how much he dreaded growing up and learning the age-old rituals. He most especially had not told Baro.

He stood in the hollow trunk of the hometree with the other villagers, and watched his father sing the traditional song-of-speaking before descending into the root node. Proty studied Baro’s face. Joy in the song was evident in every feature.

[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited February 22, 2006).]

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

I think it's a better version than the one I read before (some while back, as I recall). It better establishes something of the milieu, and gives us immediate character and conflict.

I still have the same problem with the main character's name.

I also didn't like the use of "his father, Baro". I know it's difficult, but in this instance, Proty's POV is such that it seems to me he'd just call him "his father", or "Father" when addressing him directly (I'd never, ever think of "my father, Eric"). You will need to introduce Baro's name at some point, but I'd suggest doing that using a conversation or something that Proty witnesses - at the end of the ceremony, someone comes up to his father and says "So, Baro, how are you doing with the boy? Got him ready to take over from you yet?" - that kind of thing. But from Proty's POV, it feels to me that he should always just be "father".

Other than that, I think it's fine. BTW - Is the "outleaf trial for the viner" going to be significant? I'm guessing not, but I'm kind of hoping I'll at least find out what that meant at some point in the story. I wouldn't dream of asking you to explain it in the first 13, though

Posted by Aalanya (Member # 3263) on :

I think I like everything about this except the first sentence. My problem with the first sentence is that when I first read it I had no idea what you were talking about. Since I'm not familiar with "hometree," "outleaf trial," or "viner" this sentence begins to sound like nonsense. I think it's alright to have unknown words in the first sentence, but not alright for the entire second half of the sentence to be unknown words. There needs to be balance.

Perhaps it might work better if you take out parts. If you just say "father's love" instead of "father's love for the hometree" and "outleaf trial" instead of "outleaf trial for the viner" the sentence might work better. I think that would highlight the main points without getting bogged down.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

You may have a valid point about the words in the first sentence. I'll see what other people say. But this was my reasoning for doing it that way: The 'outleaf trial for the viner' is very significant, and is explained soon. I wouldn't put so many unfamiliar words in the first sentence normally, but beginning in sentence two I start to give a sense of the hometree. The descriptions of it build for the next couple of chapters. Within this first chapter I also define viner and outleaf. All of these concepts are hugely vital to the plot. And to Proty, they are all second nature words, he would use them in casual conversation. More than that, though, the central conflict of the novel is introduced right away. The first chapter is kind of a symbolic, condensed version of the novel as a whole, or a good part of it anyway.

I can change the wording of the sentence with Baro's name, but could you refresh my memory: what was the problem with Proty again? None of the characters in the novel have names that aren't made up, and there is a system of rules about names which I explain later.

[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited February 22, 2006).]

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

My thoughts:

Proty first realized he was jealous of his father’s love

I think you said this right, but I had to puzzle with it for a moment. My initial impression was Proty thinking, "My father's love has ALL the fun!" Jealous for? I'm not sure.

his father, Baro

I think this is OK, to tell us Baro's name. Apparently in their culture, children think of parents by given name.

You might give us a hint as to why Proty hates the rituals. Since I think rituals are cool, it will help me understand him.

You might also note something like that all his friends think he's really lucky.

My overall impression: not bad. I'm on the verge of whether I'd keep reading. The reason is that I don't think I like Proty. He's whiney and I don't know enough of why to sympathize.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

He's already whiney? Dang. Part of his character arc is that he gets very selfish and whiney through the first part of the novel, but he's supposed to at least get a little reader sympathy at the beginning.

Will, I personally think the rituals are cool, too, but I'm not a rebellious 15 year old. Hmm. Must think on the whineyness bit.

Posted by ethersong (Member # 3216) on :

Well, rituals may be cool to us because we find them dramatic and never had to go through them...well, actually we probrably have. Have you ever found yourself getting annoyed at church things or meal prayers (:O did I say that?!) or perhaps doing things like the Pledge of Alleigence (for those in America) in school? If you grow up with such things they can become annoying and cumbersome, especially when they take away from something important as they do here (his father's love).

Personally, I like the first sentence. I get really excited whenver the writer comes up with his own stuff, especially new terms and culture. So for me, when I see new terms like this, it makes me what to read more to discover what these things are, especially if its important. But then again, I found just about every word of the Wheel of Time series fascinating for practically the same reason and lots of people complain about that so I don't know how much my opinion is worth.

Posted by LMermaid (Member # 2778) on :

I liked the opening. I didn't think Proty was too whiny (although the potential for whiny-ness is definitely there), and I had no trouble believing that a 15-year-old would reject his father's occupation and rituals (even though I myself was very interested in learning more about the rituals). I'd keep reading.

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

I didn't think he was whiny. I thought he seemed reasonably mature, in terms of realising that his father loved something that he just couldn't find it in himself to feel for.

The joy of contrasting critiques!

My objection to the "Proty" name is that "Proty" was a character in the "Legion of Superheroes" comic book, a shape-changing pet (who, of course, turned out to be highly intelligent). "Proty" was clearly chosen as an abbreviation of the shapeless Proteus of Greek myth.

There are a lot of people out there who haven't read Legion of Superheroes, I'm sure, and who won't be bothered. But because that's the only place I've come across the name before, I can't shift it. Probably not as bad as calling a character Frodo, or Corwin, though...

Posted by dckafka (Member # 3258) on :

It feels like your working a bit to hard to set up your story. You're throwing culture and character motivations about without stopping along the way to make me care about Proty, et al. You've created an interesting world and you're trying to hook me with that idea. But it all being thrown at me at once. Try opening your world gradually. Start me with the familiar. Hook me with a hint of the alien. Then slowly open your world up to me - keep me reaching for it. While you're doing that, make Proty a character that draws my attention. Don't just tell me what he feels. Show me.

Good ideas. Very vivid images. I can tell you've got a whole world up your sleeve. But don't forget to tell me a story. Entertain me.

Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :

I don't think he's whiney. I'm more with Tchern here: I like him. I think he's very mature for his age. His relationship with his father looks intriguing, and most probably pain-filled.

It's a more interesting beginning than the first one you posted. I'd read on.

Though I'll echo the comment of putting too many new words upfront. "hometree", "outleaf trial for the viner", "treespeaker" are too much in just two sentences.

My two cents.

Posted by thayerds (Member # 3260) on :

This is going to get me in trouble, i just know it. You said it was a novel and that your goal was to get more action into it. I liked what you wrote, and i did not think there was anything abnormal about Proty, very typical attitude (if my kids were typical that is). To me (and this is only for me) the first 13 lines must accomplish one thing and that is to move my consciousness from words on a page to pictures in my head. I don't see why you couldn't start with the song ritual, never mind Proty and his attitude, that can come a little later. Use the active voice to describe the ritual to creat the pictures, then move on. This is after all a novel, and we need to see this new world before we can understand Proty. The main conflict in LOTRs didn't come until chapter two!

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

I've noticed that rushing is a HUGE problem for me. The last time I tried to write this novel I ran out of plot in 20k, but I had as much plot as most novels do. So my problem was that I condensed it too much. I'm really trying not to do that this time, so I see that I can probably slow down a little here and still make it interesting. A lot of people end up cutting words on rewrites; I always have to add them.

I'll try to make it a little less dense.

Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :

I like that you write like a technical writer. But I have to agree the first sentence is hard to swallow. It's a paragraph I had to read twice as it was full of vital information.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

Okay, I just cut the first paragraph. This is the second one:

quote:
Proty stood in the hollow trunk of the hometree with the other villagers, and watched his father sing the traditional song-of-speaking before descending into the root node. Proty studied his father’s face. Joy in the song was evident in every feature. Baro’s eyes were closed. His head tossed back. His arms stretched upward. His rumbling bass voice carried easily through the crowd gathered inside the trunk. People stood in circles, filling the wide base of the hometree. More faces peeked out from the open arches above. Trials were rare in the village and no one wanted to miss seeing this one. The criminal--a stranger to Proty--who had tried to enter their village with a piece of the forbidden poison vine, cowered beside Baro. While the root node they were both preparing to enter was a place of peace and

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited February 23, 2006).]

Posted by thayerds (Member # 3260) on :

I liked that better! For the opening of a novel I think that works. What came first before, can now slide in behind.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I have these suggestions:

*Tell us who Baro is

*Give us some sense of Proty's reaction to what he's seeing. Based on what I know already it might be something like a mixture of pride in Dad and hope that Proty can find a different way, because of such-and-such.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

This is a good start for a novel, IMHO. You start off with emotion and a hint of conflict right in the first sentence, although "the outleaf trial for the viner." made no sense to me and made me stumble at the end of that sentence. Nevertheless, I have a sense of a young man who wants more than his given role in life and that alone has begun many an exciting tale in the past. Now I'll see if I agree with what anyone else has said...

I completely agree with the "his father" comment...In fact, by the end of this short passage I had somehow forgotten that Baro was his father. In third person limited point of view I expect the protagonist's father to go by father, dad, his father, etc.

For the record, I didn't perceive any whinyness, but this is going to be a perception that some people will have...the perople who don't sympathize with the plight of your protagonist...and I assur eyou, not all will.

Also for the record, I didn't like the elimination of the first paragraph. You got to some more interesting stuff and I'm glad to see that my perception that interesting stuff was around the corner was right, but beginning with emotion and conflict between father and son was a much better hook that some unknown and unfamiliar ritual.

In fact, I would have to say I disagree with the responder who said you needed to begin in the familiar. I think you already did -- in the first version, when you began with jealousy over his father's love for a tree. This is something I can understand and relate to. And while I was confused by the ritual reference in the first sentence, I feel that this is the only hint of throwing too much culture at us all at once.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

About whineyness: what I think I get from OSC is that to be sympathetic, a character needs to show us some appealing aspect before (or at the same time as) the negative aspect. I'd be up for a story about someone overcoming the whiney-teenager thing, as long as I like him somewhat.

Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :

Just a quick note to say I agree with Christine: I could relate to Proty much more with the first version. BUT this second version makes it clearer to me what the "outleaf trial for the viner" is.

Posted by Marva (Member # 3171) on :

Autumn: I found that your start beginning with the second paragraph grabbed me much more than the first try. For a novel, I'm inclined to give the writer a couple of pages to set up, not just thirteen lines, but your second attempt did it very well.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

Thanks everyone!

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I think it's a good place to open, since it quickly identifies a driving conflict in the character.

Technical issues are difficult to identify in a novel opening, but I found it engaging in both versions, with a preference for the rapid scene establishment in the second. Unfortunately, the second version forces you to put off introducing the character's internal conflict, but that's okay in a novel. The second opening gets us into the milieu smoothly and without intrusive explanations, so you'll have the rest of this scene to let Proty realize the conflict (assuming this scene isn't hirty pages long or something like that).

About being whiny...Proty is merely realizing that he doesn't want to be the Treespeaker. As long as you give him definite reasons other than just wanting to make trouble (and I imagine that the trial will supply a few), it is an understandable problem. In fact, by showing us that he believes that honest devotion to the hometree and the role of Treespeaker is essential and letting him have a problem with faking it, you tell us something good about his character.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

Thank you Survivor, you've hit on exactly what I want to happen with the MC.

Note: I do plan on changing Proty's name; just haven't thought up a good alternate yet.