Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Big Powwow, 1st 2 scenes

This is topic Big Powwow, 1st 2 scenes in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001847

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

This is homework for my class with OSC. I welcome comments on the first 13, or on the whole thing. The segment is about 2400 words, but it's the start of a novel.

LH denizens, you can also find this in my forum there.

Thanks!

----------------

Deron, fourteen years old, rode on the Interstate in the back of his mother's car, trying not to listen to an argument.

"Don't you be coming at me with that 'Oh, honey,'" Momma told Grandma. "You just done this because you knew the preacher was going to be there."

"Honey," Grandma said, "I didn't have no way of knowing you was going to, uh --"

He wished he could be like his baby sister Shandra, riding next to him. ...

[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited March 13, 2006).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

The opening line is a bit...straightforward. That is, the information is necessary but some readers will be turned off by having it chucked at them.

I'd like to know exactly what Deron was doing by way of not listening. Was he looking out the window, trying to read, covering his head with his hands, or what? Why doesn't he know what the argument was about? It seems more like he wishes he didn't know what the argument was about, but I don't know.

Overall, I think this scene has strong potential as an opening. Maybe I'll be back later to pick up the rest.

Posted by FastCat (Member # 3281) on :

The opening line:

Deron, fourteen years old, rode on the Interstate in the back of his mother's car, trying not to listen to an argument

I think that this is a case of show not tell. Deron seems like the main character so the reader should get involved with whats going on with him by describing his attempts to not listen in on the conversation.

one example might be:
Deron hummed ever louder trying to add to the noise the car made on the Interstate just so that he couldn't hear the argument in the front seat. He even picked up his 8th grade history book, boring as that was, to try and distract himself.

Posted by Aalanya (Member # 3263) on :

One suggestion I've heard about writing dialect is to try to use dialect words instead of dialect spellings. I don't think your dialogue is unreadable, but it might be something to keep in mind.

Posted by Mystic (Member # 2673) on :

I think it works, but that is mainly because I hear that kind of dialect a lot and my mind automatically translates it. I definitely do think your opening has the power to keep me reading because I really want to know what happened with the preacher and Deron's mother.

Posted by krazykiter (Member # 3108) on :

The accent confused me a bit because "gone" is an English word. I honestly thought it was a typo. It would have helped had it been " gon' " or something similar.

I can't put my finger on exactly why, but the viewpoint is a little soft. I know we're supposed to be in Deron's viewpoint, but it doesn't feel like we're *quite* there yet.

Posted by nitewriter (Member # 3214) on :

This opening does get my attention and I would read further. The dialect does sound a little off the mark to me. I've never tried to write a particular dialect myself, but I've heard it is difficult to pull off. Perhaps the word "gone" might be replaced by "goin'" Just a thought.

ALso, the very last sentence. "...Shandra, riding next to him." Well this is a given, she is riding because they are all in a car together. What I would like to see is Shandra doing something that indicates that she somehow has removed herself from the situation - I'm only guessing at this, a possible reason why
Deron wishes he could be like her. So maybe she sat next to him gazing out the window, looking through a book, etc. Something to show us she has in fact removed herself from the situation.

[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited March 12, 2006).]

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

My problem with this is that Deron has no interest in the argument, and has no idea what it's about.

That makes it really hard for me to care about it, either.

If the argument is important, then find a way that it matters to Deron so he'll pay attention, and we can care with him. If the argument isn't important, then don't give us any details; concentrate instead on the ways Deron tries to distance himself from it, and we can identify with his desire to do that.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

OK: here's what I'm trying to do. Deron isn't interested in the argument (and we shouldn't be either), but has no ability to shut it out. What would be a way of showing his vulnerability to that? I welcome suggestions.

Posted by spcpthook (Member # 3246) on :

Overall comment on this submission. Put us more in Deron's head and show us his thoughts as he tries to avoid listening to the argument rather than telling us the argument he's trying not to hear.

Offer up a little setting as well. What kind of car is it? are they zipping past cows or cities? Involve us more in the tale.

Deron, fourteen years old, rode on the Interstate in the back of his mother's car, trying not to listen to an argument.

This line felt stiff. I'm going to take the liberty of offering a rewrite after reading your second post. If I offend ignore this.

Sitting in the back of his mother's 1974 station wagon (is his age of great importance? If not I'd omit it and try to make the age come across through thoughts and actions) Deron stared out at the scenery flying by.

He wished the ancient car rattled more. Try as he might he couldn't shut out Momma and Grandma arguing in the front seat.(If as you state in the second post the argument is important to neither Deron nor us then why include it at all? mention they're arguing and let it go. Stay in Deron's head.)and end this with him looking wistfully at his baby sister sleeping beside him on the seat. If you feel the need to get age in here mention something like he looked down at his five year old sister dreaming in blissful ignorance beside him on the seat. Nine years ago he could have done the same.

The right way to say it would be "cry till your eyes was puffy, then blame everybody else for the way you look." Grandma would never say it. Deron had no idea what Grandma was supposed to have done. It didn't matter.
(--If you keep your original intact this paragraph needs cleaning up. Offering tiny bits of the argument feels like you're simply trying to increase tension by withholding information. )

[This message has been edited by spcpthook (edited March 13, 2006).]

Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :

Then show him trying to shut out the argument, while simultaneously shoving it at us.

I'm still not sure about this, though. Is the argument actually important to the plot? If not, then it looks like you're starting the novel in the wrong place. If it is, you've set yourself a real task in terms of making us both interested in the plot when the POV character (and presumably protagonist) isn't, and making us interested in a protagonist who is desperately trying not to be interested in what's going on about him.

Not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, just saying that you need to think very carefully about how to balance the conflict between what you want us to know and how we're going to react to it.

Posted by thayerds (Member # 3260) on :

Don't take this the wrong way but if we are not supposed to be interested in the argument then don't open with it. Open at the point or event where the main character has no choice but to be interested.

By the way, even though I'm not supposed to be interested, I am anyway. I'd love to know what happened between the preacher and "Momma". (not saying that should be in the first 13 though.)

Posted by Johnmac1953 (Member # 3118) on :

So the argument is like background noise - Deron can't shut it out 'cos he's stuck in the back of the car with his little sister...
I suggest a way to convey this may be to intersperse the 'argument' with his own thoughts. The harsh words might be the anathema(?) to what he is actually thinking?
Hope this makes sense

Best Wishes
John Mc...

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

Because Deron doesn't want to hear the argument and — as you said in your last post — 'we shouldn't either' does that mean the argument is irrelevant? Or does it mean the details of the argument are irrelevant? Right now, in light of your subsequent post, I am thinking so what, it's just a fourteen year old kid trying to tune-out his folks... what's new?

But if the details of the argument are relevent, -- and starting here would seem to indicate that they are -- shouldn't we know WHY Deron doesn't want to hear them?

If the scene is just to demonstarte this kid doesn't want to listen to his mum and grandma, or that these arguments are commonplace and boring to Deron, then that's tedious itself -- no matter how well the words are put together.

So:-
1: If the details of argument are relevent to the story, tell us why Deron doesn't want to hear them.
2: If the details of the argument are not relevent to the story start closer to the action.

BTW, I like the first line and the style.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 14, 2006).]

Posted by apeiron (Member # 2565) on :

Blah to everyone. I like your writing style--not a lot of description, which some people complained about, but it works. I know what it's like to ride down an interstate though, and I know what it's like to try to not hear an argument, but that's exactly what you can't help but focus on. It makes sense to show the adults' argument in Deron's POV. The dialect wasn't too cumbersome and the adult's exchange got me hooked.

My only concern is the choice of Deron as POV. If the focus of the story is on his mom and the preacher, then it might make more sense to have her POV. Then again, if the focus is on Deron dealing with his family, then you might want to include--not necessarily in your first 13 but soon--some of Deron's reactions to his mother besides simply avoidance.

Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :

I'm ok with that beginning. I still vividly remember being a teenager and hearing people I liked fight around me, and trying to tune them out.

Works for me.

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

To clarify: I found the piece interesting and would read on as is, but I was really thrown by the implication in your subsequent post that the details of the argument may be irrelevant to the story, when it was those details that were the most interesting.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 14, 2006).]

Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :

I liked it too, as is. Don't have an issue with the dialect, I am southern and there are many different dialects there--you did write it correctly, so the two posts about the issue of language confused me. I got an idea of where it was going and would like to know more.

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

quote:
Deron, fourteen years old, rode on the Interstate in the back of his mother's car, trying not to listen to an argument.

The only thing I am having a problem with is the statement that he "rode on the Interstate" which implies the Interstate is some sort of vehicle. My suggestion: switch the car and interstate around:

Deron, fourteen years old, rode in the backseat of his mother's car as it rattled down the Interstate, trying not to listen to an argument.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

Thanks to everyone, especially Minister and Jerailey. I turned it in today. We'll see Thursday whether the piece works for the class, and OSC.

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

To answer some speculation: the focus of this scene is Deron's family finding that this familiar stretch of Interstate suddenly dead-ends into virgin forest (it didn't yesterday!); and dealing with this impossibility.

Thanks to all.

Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :

I don't see either of them posting here.

Want to let us in on the good advice/comments?

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 16, 2006).]