This is topic NEAR in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=003208

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Does every question--in fact--have an answer? Life and reality, for instance, seem to be pointless.

Dr. Stiles sat atop the white cliffs of Dover, eyes tracing the thick blue tides back to where Calais was barely visible. A chilly ocean breeze enriched the salty air, and below him a circle of birds hovered just over the water. He watched them for a time, amused, wondering how such simple creatures could exhibit intelligence--the ability to make decisions without being told how--when millions of years of science and a twenty-billion euros machine still failed to do so. What was the difference? It was all basic carbon, metals, and hydrogen at the end of the day.

There was no difference, and very soon NEAR would prove that.
 


Posted by GLiB (Member # 8160) on :
 
I like the first paragraph. It's clean and flows smoothly. I get a nice picture of setting, and I have a mental jpg of Doc Stiles in my head sitting atop the cliffs.

Critiques:

When you wrote: “What was the difference?” To me it seems like the speaker is pondering what it is that separates a very well crafted machine ( with futuristic tech ) from a biological organism capable of instinctual autonomous behavior. I had to read this line a second time to get this. I'm not sure if it fits with the way the rest of your story is worded, but for me, changing the WHAT to a WHERE would bring the point you are making better. For me, at least, the word where seems to bring across the idea of the scientists search for the answer to the unanswered (until NEAR at least) question.

Also, the first line reads a bit weird. After the rhetorical: “Does every question—in fact have an answer?” My brain, which is often suspect, expects a follow up question. Having a statement following it was jarring to me.

All in all, I like it, and would read on. Good luck with it!

Greg-
 


Posted by TaleSpinner (Member # 5638) on :
 
Sorry, Zero, I didn't like the first para. The first sentence seems pseduo-philosophical to me, something I'd not want to get into; the second sets a negative tone for the story.

"the white cliffs of Dover" is cliche and if he's atop them, I'm not sure he'll be thinking of their whiteness.

I don't think you need to define "intelligence" for the reader.

After millions of years I doubt that Euros will still exist, or if they do, 20 billion will be worth almost nothing.

"What was the difference? " If, as the next para hnts, he's made some kind of artificial intelligence, he'd be thinking more knowledgeably than this, methinks.

"basic carbon, metals, and hydrogen"--no oxygen?

Using the "NEAR" abbreviation without defining it feels to me like witholding. I guess it's the hook but for me it doesn't work. A good hint of what it actually is would be more likely to entice me to read on.

On the Brit-American issue:

Is it an American billion or a British one? (British billions can be a thousand times larger than American ones.)

Since we still use Sterling, most Brits think in pounds, not euros, even if it's a research project funded in euros by the EU.

Hope this helps,
Pat

[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited August 21, 2008).]
 


Posted by Reagansgame (Member # 8149) on :
 
I liked it. I'm trying to think of something smart to say that might help you make it better, but I can't.
 
Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Everyone seems pretty polarized by this. The vote count it about 3 to 8. (liking it versus hating it)

Yes, it's a philosophical story so you'd better stay clear if you're not interested in that.

I like the change from "what" to "where" that's a good idea.

I'm curious. What does this mean?

quote:
Is it an American billion or a British one? (British billions can be a thousand times larger than American ones.)

Call me ignorant, but I am clueless.
 
Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
 
Originally, a british "billion" was 1,000,000,000,000, whereas the American billion was 1,000,000,000 (which technically in British English is a "milliard"). However in current normal, colloquial usage British english has adopted the American figure - but in scientific usage, less so.
 
Posted by alliedfive (Member # 7811) on :
 
Does every question--in fact--have an answer? Life and reality, for instance, seem to be pointless.
Is Dr. Stiles asking this question? The narrator? If life is pointless, why do I care about Dr. Stiles' life? Questions to ponder.

Dr. Stiles sat atop the white cliffs of Dover,
I agree that "white cliffs of dover" is cliche. You could probably say it another way and play on the cliche.
eyes tracing the thick blue tides back to where Calais was barely visible. A chilly ocean breeze enriched enriched it with what? Salt? I couldn't picture this. the salty air, and below him a circle of birds hovered just don't need the "just" over the water. He watched them for a time, amused, wondering how such simple creatures could exhibit intelligence--the ability to make decisions without being told how "without being told how" is clunky, I'm sure you can say it better --when millions of years of science and a twenty-billion dollar? euros machine still failed to do so "could not" would read smoother than "still failed to do so". What was the difference? It was all basic carbon, metals, and hydrogen at the end of the day.

There was no difference, and very soon NEAR would prove that. Ah, the hook. Pretty boring until here.

Interesting start. I am hooked by the word NEAR and what it might be. I'm not sure how the imagery you painstakingly describe serves the narrative other than prettying it up.

Feel free to send it along, I will read.

[This message has been edited by alliedfive (edited August 21, 2008).]
 


Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
 
I don't think the first line works, philosophical story or not. For most people, life and reality are a LONG way from meaningless, though you would have to define the context for their "meaning" (on a Universal scale, yes, but individuals rarely think, or want to think, in such terms - that's what phillosophers are for), and "seem" just invites your readers to disagree with you - rarely a good idea unless you're a seriously confrontational writer a la Chuck Palahniuk.

The scene above Dover - thick blue tides is an odd phrase, and I didn't get the circle of birds "hovering" over the water. No seabirds hover, though a great many glide without much visible wing action.

And you appear to have a contradiction. On the one hand you have your MC think "how can they be intelligent when there's no difference?" and then you have the final line of the opening which implies that there is, indeed, no difference and yet that NEAR IS going to exhibit intelligence... so I'm left confused as to what the focus is, what you're presenting as your intial paradigm and how you're going to use the story to illuminate or overturn or examine or... anything.

And yes, general rule of acronyms; spell it out the first time (if it's something unfamiliar), then use the acronym thereafter.


 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Sorry, an aside, but an important one, I think.

quote:
And yes, general rule of acronyms; spell it out the first time (if it's something unfamiliar), then use the acronym thereafter.

While this is true of non-fiction, I feel it doesn't hold for fiction. If the acronym is clear in context then why bog down the narrative with some complex string of words? Especially since the character will most likely be thinking of it in acronym form.
 
Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
 
Absolutely. All rules can and arguably should be broken.

You just have to know when, how and why you should break it. But to do that, you have to understand the rule first.
 


Posted by satate (Member # 8082) on :
 
I liked the first sentence, it worked as a hook for me. I enjoyed the first paragraph too. I was very drawn into the scene and I liked the philiosphicalness of it. (sorry in advance if philiophicalness isn't really a word)
 
Posted by firemonkey (Member # 7955) on :
 
I liked the first two sentences, it seems like the sort of thing such a man might think (I already don't like him, hope that's what you're after!) - a scientist who's not really a philosopher and who's on the verge of making one almighty mistake! Clearly we assume he's about to succeed in creating a thinking machine, and maybe the first thought will be, "What do I need these smelly humans for?"

As for the machine's price: does it matter whether its 20 and nine zeros or 20 and twelve zeros? Though I'd say a twenty-billion euro machine - without the 's', like you would with dollars... 20 million dollar machine.

Anyway, I'd keep reading.

Cheers,

Andy.
 


Posted by TheOnceandFutureMe on :
 
I'm not digging this opening. All I have is a guy thinking - why should I keep reading. I'm assuming that the story will develop, but right now I just have an idea.

That being said, I am curious what kind of story will develop out of this. If you're done send it my way.


 


Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :
 
Well, there isn't much of a story in terms of action, the "conflict" is ocmpletely in the main character's mind, and the entire story is an introspective philosophical journey about everything from ethics to humanity and existence. That doesn't seem to appeal to a paying market, but I love it. So if you're up for an extremely philosophical piece then tell me and I'll send it to you, otherwise I'll spare you from what will probably strike you as an extremely boring story with few characters and no action.
 


Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2