Hatrack River Writers Workshop: The Price of Memory

This is topic The Price of Memory in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

“Will it hurt, doctor?”
“No, Sir Kimmler.”
“Please. No formalities,” the older man said. Older? He was ancient. And he was cold and uncomfortable in the hosptial gown they’d given him. The gown, the cold, brought back...bad memories, but that was why he was here, wasn’t it? “Call me Hern,” he said, “or, perhaps, ‘Herr Kimmler.’” The last he said with self-loathing.
The doctor raised an eyebrow. It was white and cast a shadow over his eye like snow over the the edge of a roof. Wiry white thinning hair encircled his head, leaving the top bare and glistening. “Isn’t that what you're here to forget?” the doctor asked.

[Sloppiness corrected--thanks, Axe.]

[This message has been edited by History (edited April 29, 2011).]

Posted by Brendan (Member # 6044) on :

Do we put on our literary hat for this Bob? Or should we judge by the norms of genre fiction? Who is your audience?

The following is based on my understanding of genre fiction, which are quite different to literary norms and, in fact, may be quite the opposite at times. (I also thought that it might be interesting to discuss the two approaches with someone from a more literary background.)

quote:
The doctor raised an eyebrow. It was white and cast a shadow over his eye like snow over the the edge of a roof.

In genre fiction, this is not simply description, it is holds the potential of a red herring (bad) or a critical clue (good). I am now looking for the importance of his eyebrow, how its whiteness will affect the outcome between the doctor and the man, how it will impact the entire story. Yes, we already know his age is important, but now the whiteness of the eyebrow has been signified as a key clue to understanding this story. And, I don't mean a symbolic understanding (it might have that too), I am looking for a literal importance because you have decided to spend two sentences on it in the opening, and therefore you are telescoping its critical value. Furthermore, I am trying, unsuccessfully so far, to connect the whiteness to the medical procedure - is it a side effect of something that he is already doing? Are the two of them using anti-aging medication? (Note, if this is literature, then the sentence is simply a fascinating daliance over to the side, indicating that the reader will find more such interesting descriptive passages throughout the story. In genre fiction, this early in the piece it is more front and center, something critical to the entire story.)

Herr Kimmler. This sounds like he is trying to erase memories of Nazi Germany. I am familiar with Himmler but not Kimmler, so googled and couldn't find anything. Who is he?

Memory erase options, whether via medical or psychological procedures, is well trodden territory in SF. The Nazi potential gives a slight increase in the novelty factor, but is also well trodden. Yet it seems to be promising an idea story where the novelty is critical for success. Perhaps it is a character story but we have little suggesting that direction except his self-loathing and "bad memories" (the second of these is weighted towards the idea-story interpretation). This is not quite enough for me to pick up that promise, if it is a character-central story.

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

I still find it amazing how we can write so many lines in the analysis of a mere 13.

This is fiction (sf), and the characters are fictitious.
The subject matter, however, is not.

I greatly appreciate your insights and deduction, Brandon.
Admittedly, I have a "literary" bent, a love for evocative words and images that are integral to the voice, the plot, the setting, the character conflict, and message of the story. In principal, I don't believe any sentence or any word in a story should be present unless it contributes to the preceding. In other words, I don't ascribe to the belief that science fiction (or fantasy or horror, ftm) cannot be "literature."

This short story, is inspired by a prompt for potential anthology submission. Memory erasure is not a new idea (what story plots are?). But, as a member of a family of Holocaust survivors, I found it intriguing to consider from the perspectives of both a repentant Nazi and a compassionate Survivor what is "The Price of Memory."

I first wrote this from the first person perspective of Sir (Herr) Kimmler since the personalization of his character conflict and its...resolution...I believed would be stronger than with third person. Perhaps it still would be. I'll need to think on this.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :

Bob,
This 13 seems pretty crude. I know you write better, so I wonder if upon switching the tense if you hadn't scrutinized it as much as you might have normally?

Emotionally I'm not a fan of dialog beginnings, but there's nothing wrong with them, strictly speaking. However, I'm always more drawn in when a story starts with, even if just one line, a setting.
Kimmler shifted nervously on the cold medical table.
"Will it hurt..."
Now you've established his apprehension and his location. We can all sympathize with being on one of those tables in that sterile environment and that crunching paper. Hopefully that sentence would evoke that entire list of feelings in a reader.

Now for some technical nits.

"The older man said." I think this could be either man at this point because we've not established who is who. The logical progression says it's the initial speaker, but simply calling him older isn't the strongest of characterizations.

I found the internal dialog which referred to the author tag jarring. (the older man said.) is just a tag, right? (Older? He was ancient.) Was like Kimmler could hear the tag and commented on it.

"And he was cold and. " I'll assume that period is a typo. However, this sentence is some heavy telling. I'd bet you can find a more creative way to tell us in one sentence he's uncomfortable and why. Right now it's too echoey. (cold and uncomfortable in the gown... The gown, the cold...)

"But that was why he was here, wasn't?" Is there an "it" missing at the end of this sentence?

"Call my Hern" Did you mean "me" ?

I agree with Brendan when asking if the description of the Dr. is really this important.
However, the earlier older comment comes back here in a good way. The Dr. is white haired, which means Kimmler is pretty old. However, as he'd already referred to himself as ancient you've got another description echo.
I didn't like the white echo referring to the eyebrow and the hair, but it's not a big deal.

"Isn't that what you are here to forget?"
I'd suggest using a conjunction. After that, this is an echo of Kimmler's own thoughts. So, in 13 lines, you've told us twice what he's doing there. This is OK as far as driving the point home, but it lessens the mysteriousness of the procedure and subsequently takes away some of my tension regarding it.

Kimmler starts out nervous - Dr. makes it more casual. Unless this is what you are going for attitude wise. Remember the semi-obnoxious nurses and doctor in Total Recall when Quaid was sitting on the chair? Well, obnoxious might be the wrong word, but they seemed intentionally contrasty to Quaid's nervousness.

I know these are probably silly nits, but I found them to throw off any rhythm you might have had.

I have an expression. I call it "reading downhill". It's when something flows so easily you don't know you're reading and you're drawn in and the pages fly by.

You did this in The Kabbalist. That was very smooth and definitely read downhill. So I know you can do it again.

Axe

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Thank you, Axe.
Been juggling many balls in the air with little sleep -- and this is my vacation!

I apologize for the slovenliness of the lines. Thank you for your corrections and comments.

I don't share your dislike of beginning a story with someone speaking--though I do wish it to immediately present something integral to the plot and character.

One criticism I've received on my writing in general, here at Hatrack, has been including too much description. Initially, as an exercise, these 13 lines had none--only dialog from the first person perspective.
But it didn't work (or I couldn't do it).

This piece is 2769 words in second draft. If you, or anyone, is interested in giving it a look over, I would be appreciative.

Dr. Bob
(running out the door) "O.k. Next?..."

[This message has been edited by History (edited April 29, 2011).]

Posted by EVOC (Member # 9381) on :

Dr. Bob

I don't mind dialogue openings. I think it works for this first 13 as well. I think it sparks interest while starting where the story seems to start.

I think when you say "Older?" I read if more as a statement then a question. More like "Older- He was ancient."

In the next sentence "And he was cold and uncomfortable..." I think you can cut that first and. It seems awkward with two Ands so close.

I agree about the lengthy description of the Doctor. It doesn't see so relevant for the opening 13. However, to be honest, I wasn't bothered by it until I read it the second time.

Anyway, I would gladly take a look at the whole piece. Perhaps I can help you with it. If you send it over, I will also let you know if my opinion on first or third person.

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Thank you, EVOC.
I'll email you this evening.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

P.S.....make that tomorrow. Having internet connnectivity issues on my netbook.

[This message has been edited by History (edited May 01, 2011).]

Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :

“Will it hurt, doctor?”
“No, Sir Kimmler.”
“Please. No formalities,” the older man said. Older? He was ancient. And he was cold and uncomfortable in the hosptial gown they’d given him. The gown, the cold, brought back...bad memories, but that was why he was here, wasn’t it? “Call me Hern,” he said, “or, perhaps, ‘Herr Kimmler.’” The last he said with self-loathing.
The doctor raised an eyebrow. It was white and cast a shadow over his eye like snow over the the edge of a roof. Wiry white thinning hair encircled his head, leaving the top bare and glistening. “Isn’t that what you're here to forget?” the doctor asked.

1. Dialogue opening IMO should be avoided. I get tempted myself, but always re-jig it so the reader knows who is speaking and where.

2. Sir? That is a British title only, isn't it.

3. The older man is Kimmler or the doctor? Or is this another man? Of course I know, but the confusion can and should be avoided (IMO). Don't change tags so early in the story.

4. Older? You shouldn't have Kimmler comment on YOUR dialogue tag. I realise that we use descriptions to further the POV, but it should (IMO) represent the POV's attitidue to something. If Kimmler saw himself as ancient, then that should be what he 'sees'.

5.I think you should paragraph when Kimmler starts talking again after the memories section--the in between bit is too long and the speech gets lost visually in the paragraph.

6. Said with self loathing. How does it feel to say something with self loathing? Does it make you want to spit the words out? Does each word taste almost bitter on your tongue? Do you hesitate to finish? Think about it and you'll find something that sums it up for you and prompts the reader. 'Telling' is saying someone's emotional state outright, 'showing' is alluding to an emotional state--the reader puts the jigsaw together.

The monster came round the corner and Bill became afraid.

The monster came around the corner and Bill's heart almost jumped out of his chest.

7. The eyebrow? Is it important?

8. Paragraph for the doctor's dialogue.

This is of course, all my own opinion.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited May 01, 2011).]

Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :

Thanks, skadder.
Much appreciated. Particularly on the "self-loathing".

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Posted by Reziac (Member # 9345) on :

Messing with it a bit:

quote:
“Will it hurt?”
“No, Sir Kimmler.”
“Please, doctor. I'm too old for formalities.” Too old, ha. More like ancient. And cold and uncomfortable in the skimpy hospital gown. The gown, the cold, the sterile exam room, brought back...bad memories, but that was why he was here, wasn’t it? “Call me Hern,” he said; then with a touch of self-loathing, “or, perhaps, ‘Herr Kimmler.’”
The doctor raised an eyebrow, furry white shadowing his eye like snow over the the edge of a roof. Wiry white thinning hair encircled his head, leaving the top bare and glistening. “Isn’t that what you're here to forget?”

Still not pleased with the eyebrow bit, but didn't like it separated as it drew too much attention to itself.

However, I generally like the picture presented, as it appears that there's an interesting and probably inverted relationship here.

Posted by bemused (Member # 8465) on :

I usually find memory erasure stories to be enticing, but it seems the hook here doesn’t present anything particularly new. We have an old(er) (most likely) German man who is concerned that a medical procedure will cause pain and who has some memories that have to do with the cold and/or hospitals that he would rather not recall. The story may become far more intriguing as it goes, but if this is written for a memory erasure anthology, the unique perspective it brings is not immediately apparent. Perhaps this can be adjusted by cutting some superfluous material from the opening and getting the story going faster.
The distinction between being called “sir” and “herr” doesn’t really add much to the story. I get that the old(er) man doesn’t want the situation to be too formal. But being called “Herr Kimmler” is the equivalent of being called “Mr Himmler” and is a sign of respect and formality as much as “sir” is. It would be one thing if he said, “Please, no formalities. Call me Frederick.” Or something along those lines.
The other bit that doesn’t quiet work is the "the older man said. Older? He was ancient.” The “Older? He was ancient” sounds like it is coming from Kimmler’s internal perspective in response to being identified as an “older man” by the doctor. However, it is all in narration. And if it is not supposed to represent two different perspectives, than it is unclear which POV is dominating, one of the two characters, or a limited third with a bit of sass that seems out of place.
These two points seem like stumbling blocks that keep the story from really generating forward moment in the opening and don’t convey what will be unique about your take on memory erasure.