This is topic First 13, high fantasy pending name in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
This if my first draft of a novel I'm going to start working on, but before I begin, I still have some more planning to do and I thought I could put up the first 13 lines to get some feedback on them.

The rocky ground was hard and loose. The temperature was excruciatingly hot for this time of the day, near dusk. The stench of the enemy could be smelled over a mile away. In spite of this, the troops couldn’t be better prepared or more motivated to crush their target, and Mandon Drallim could tell as he marched through the mountainous landscape at the head of a mighty battalion of trained warriors. He could not be any happier than he was now, having donned the strongest body armor in the entire battalion. Not only that, but the fact that he might finally put an end to the bloody conflict he had put so much effort into after several years was enough satisfaction to keep fighting for a long time. The Imperial Legion and it’s various missions and armed expeditions had given him plenty of chances to prove himself as a Super soldier...

[This message has been edited by Marcellios (edited February 10, 2008).]
 


Posted by bobbieanne (Member # 6277) on :
 
IMHO, I think you're doing too much describing when you should let your character do the work for you. Three sentences in a row begin with "The," so think about varying your sentence beginnings as you rework this as well. If the ground is rocky, hard, and loose, then describe how Mandon feels going across it. Are his feet slipping? Can he feel it crumble beneath his boots? Or is he wearing sandals and can feel the bruises forming as he marches. And if it's hot, talk about him sweating underneath his armor, for example. If it's dusk, talk about him seeing the sun set and waiting for the temperature to cool, disappointed when it doesn't. If the enemy stinks, have him react to it. If he's happy, show us he's happy. This passage suffers from too much telling. Close your eyes and picture being the character, then try again. Engage us.


 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Yeah, I think bobbieanne's pretty much describes my reaction. This reads like an info dump because the tone is so removed. You're telling us the rocky ground was hard and loose and the temp was hot. The problem is none of that matters to me. You need to give us someone for whom it does matter, and then I'll care about it. But the facts in and of themselves do nothing.

Now, you give us Mandon, but he isn't affected by the heat, rocks, or stench, so why mention them in the first place?

Also, "super soldier" to me smacks of Sci Fi.

I'd suggest focusing on Mandon even more. If you must mention the ground and heat, then do so from Mandon's POV. Here's a cheesy but adequate example of what I'm talking about: "Mandon wiped the sweat from his brow. The battle suit he wore made marching slow and hot; nevertheless, he could not help but smile every time his arm guards flashed in the dusk light. Fashioned from palladium and worked with magic by the Elves of the Dark Wood, his armor was the best in the battalion. He hoped it would be enough to help him win the next battle. He would have to win it--the war had gone on long enough, and too many had died."
 


Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to change it like that. I'll be doing a lot of work on the intro, and after I've gotten it refined, I'll re-post it. There is a little bit of it that might be sci-fi; this world's technology evolved much differently than ours.

[This message has been edited by Marcellios (edited February 11, 2008).]
 


Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
I'm not sure if this is too long to be 13 lines, but here is my revision. I rewrote the entire section and factored in your critiques.

Mandon Drallim slipped as his foot hit another rock on the mountainous trail he marched on. Ah, damn it, he thought; his black armor, smooth and as polished as steel could get, was not usually hard for him to march in. Today, however, there were too many things on his mind and he could not possibly stay focused as he trudged along the hilly path in the excruciating heat that was uncommon for dusk at any time of the year. He even managed to ignore the chatter that was typical with one thousand Imperial legionaries marching towards battle behind him. What excited him and provided an effective release from the conditions discomforting and annoying the legionaries was the knowledge that he could finally end the conflict that had caused the deaths of legionaries, merchants, and explorers for

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited February 11, 2008).]
 


Posted by AllenMackley (Member # 7771) on :
 
quote:

Mandon Drallim slipped as his foot hit another rock on the mountainous trail he marched on. <<<Cut out he marched on Ah, damn it, he thought; his black armor, smooth and as polished as steel could get, was not usually hard for him to march in. Today, however, there were too many things on his mind and he could not possibly stay focused as he trudged along the hilly path in the excruciating heat that was uncommon for dusk at any time of the year. What is on his mind? What is he trying to focus on? Can you show us this, as well as the heat, without simply telling us? He even managed to ignore the chatter that was typical with one thousand Imperial legionaries marching towards battle behind him. What excited him and provided an effective release from the conditions discomforting and annoying the legionaries was the knowledge that he could finally end the conflict that had caused the deaths of legionaries, merchants, and explorers for three bloody years. <<<This sentence is still static. It's telling us like a non-fiction would tell us facts. As fantasy and sci-fi readers, we want to see and experience these things taking place -- we like to get caught up in the fantastical. You have to embed these details into the story as you go. As one of the skilled ‘Falamost Supersoldiers’, <<<You don't need quotes here helping the Empire of Avril against this threat From whom? was what they paid him for <<< consider replacing with: is why they paid him. Start new sentance>>> The death toll, however, made this one One what? War? Fight? Be descriptive here personal.


[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited February 11, 2008).]
 


Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
Thanks. I made a few fixes to post along with any other critiques tomorrow. I'm going to re-word one of the sentences, because I stated that what was on his mind was that he was excited.
 
Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Revision is better, but yeah, you're still narrating and summarizing, rather than dramatizing. Also, you've got a lot of extra little details dangling around that are creating unwieldy sentences.

Mandon Drallim slipped as his foot hit another rock on the mountainous trail he marched on. Ah, damn it, he thought; his black armor, smooth and as polished as steel could get, was not usually hard for him to march in. Today, however, there were too many things on his mind and he could not possibly stay focused as he trudged along the hilly path in the excruciating heat that was uncommon for dusk at any time of the year Okay, stop right there. Do we really need to know that the excruciating heat was uncommon for dusk at any time of year? This sounds like a weird aside about the whether. Unless this is a story about global warming, I'd suggest cutting the editorializing as it rips me right out of the story. Cut "the hilly path"--you've already told us he's in the mountains. As for the many things keeping him from focusing--maybe you could just have his mind wander instead of telling us he's having a hard time concentrating.. He even managed to ignore the chatter that was typical with one thousand Imperial legionaries marching towards battle behind him This is an awkward way to slip in that there's a battalion behind him. Maybe you could have someone try to chat him up and he's just spacin gout or something. Or he could hear their chatter but he wishes they'd be quiet or something like that. Otherwise, there are smoother ways to introduce the battalion.. What excited him and provided an effective release from the conditions discomforting and annoying the legionaries your language here is very clinical and hence distracting from the story. Maybe he could just have a thought about ending the conflict, and then he gets excited. That would establish the same information, but it would be a heck of lot funner to read. was the knowledge that he could finally end the conflict that had caused the deaths of legionaries, merchants, and explorers for three bloody years. This line could be much punchier. Maybe if it weren't so generic. Maybe if we were more grounded in his thoughts. Did he lose a comrade? Did he fail to hold the flank under an assault? Always reach for specifics when you can. Also, I'm ending it here since by my count that's 13 lines.

I think you're on the right track, but I think you need to go even deeper into his head. You can slow waaaay down here and let things unfold rather than just giving us the summary version. A story is about the journey to the denouement, not simply the denouement. Put your character in a situation and observe what he does and thinks.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited February 11, 2008).]
 


Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
Oh, I see. The introduction is supposed to be dramatizing, and the narrating/explaining goes on later. I'll add in the critiques and re-work the intro.
 
Posted by AllenMackley (Member # 7771) on :
 
quote:
Oh, I see. The introduction is supposed to be dramatizing, and the narrating/explaining goes on later. I'll add in the critiques and re-work the intro.

Well, sorta, but more than that.

Lets take an arbitrary example:
The front porch was gray and rough. The roof was short. Bob was a tall man. He sat down.

That's boring and static...

Now, consider this:
Bob walked to the front porch and ducked his head to avoid the roof. He strained to bend his legs, careful not to sit on the chipped, gray paint.

Albeit, the second example could still be improved. However, do you see the difference? Whenever you can explain details through actions, do it. This should apply to the whole book, in my opinion, not just the beginning.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited February 12, 2008).]
 


Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
 
a nit -- it is my understanding that even the Spartans did not march to the battlefield in their armor. It was their Helots' job to carry their masters' gear.
 
Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
Thanks. The problem is, though, the hero could be potentially ambushed and he knows it. Otherwise, he could be marching normally. Anyway, here is the 13 lines re-done with all of your critiques.

Mandon Drallim slipped as his foot hit another rock on the slippery mountainous trail. Ah, damn it, he thought. His black armor, smooth and as polished as steel could get, was not usually hard for him to march in; he usually didn’t, but Mandon decided to keep it on, just in case of an ambush. Today, however, there were too many things on his mind and he could not possibly stay focused on the ground before him; the decisive battle, the bloody encounters that he had been part of, and the realization that he could finally avenge all the innocent citizens that had been killed in this three-year conflict were too distracting for him to keep his mind on the now.
“Umm, excuse me, Mister Drallim?”

That last part was part of the introduction to the battalion behind him, without going past 13 lines.

[This message has been edited by Marcellios (edited February 13, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited February 13, 2008).]
 


Posted by annepin (Member # 5952) on :
 
Better, but what you've got here is still just the skeleton--you have to put flesh on the bones.

Here's my suggestion: slow way down. You're still rushing over and summarizing the very things I want to read about. Think about every sentence. Rather than simply stating what the protag is doing try to find a way to make it evident through his action or thoughts. With every statement about his thoughts, thinking about ways of really bringing it home.

So, instead of telling us he's keeping his armor on in case of an ambush, maybe he could glance at the surrounding terrain and think about his enemy. Instead of telling us he can't stay focused simply let his mind wander to the conflict. As for the bloody encounters, again, I need more information to really care. You're summarizing a good deal of his history, but I want to know, specifically, who and what he's worried about.

So:

He was afraid he'd get ambushed.

vs.

A flicker of movement among the granite boulders caught his attention. His hand flew to his hilt. It was not the enemy, only a mountain goat bounding away from the long train of soldiers. Still, up ahead the pass narrowed, the perfect place for the Bad Guys to close in. He hoped the men were ready.

By going specific, you have the opportunity to really play out the fear, really play out the details of his situation. Though I'm "telling" about the mountain goat, I'm telling fact when and how the MC perceives them, not by summarizing them. Whenever you summarize, especially about a character's emotions, you are intruding with the narrator's vision of what's going on. For some instances, it doesn't matter--you want to do that. For critical moments, including the opening of your story, I'd argue that you do want to dramatize events rather than summarize.

As to the first 13, you don't need to pack in the entire set up. You just need to give the reader enough to keep him or her interested. Marching, exhausted, under threat of ambush might be enough. Or his thoughts on the conflict might be enough, but make it count. Really dig deep and think about the specifics. It's in the details that your character thrives.

I hope this helps. Keep at it--I think this is one of the hardest things for people to master. Heck, I'm still learning it.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited February 14, 2008).]
 


Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
Ah, alright. I'm going waaay too fast then, among other things. Making a good intro is much harder than it seemed a while ago when I started browsing the site. I'll experiment with some other paragraphs and post yet another revision when I think I've got it near enough to perfect.
 
Posted by Marcellios (Member # 7792) on :
 
This is the best I've been able to get so far, I think I have a grasp on what you mean annepin. If the topic is having too many revisions, just tell me and I can start a new one. This is 14 lines though, if you consider 'it.' a line. <_<

Mandon Drallim slipped as his foot hit another rock on the slippery, gray mountain trail. Ah, damn it, he thought, I’m not staying focused on the ground before me. His black armor, smooth and as polished as steel could get, was usually easy for him to march in. For a moment, he wondered why he even bothered to march in his heavy suit, when he noticed movement from the corner of his vision. In a flash, he turned to the source of the movement and prepared to eliminate it. Well, what a surprise. It was no threat, only a small furry rodent hopping through the area. Oh yes, ambush, he recalled, that’s why I’m panting and sweating in this armor instead of having the Pandrones hold it. But that’s not why I’m out of focus; I’ve done this so many times, this can’t be it.

[This message has been edited by Marcellios (edited February 18, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by Marcellios (edited February 18, 2008).]
 




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