Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Red

This is topic Red - the story itself in forum Fragments and Feedback for Books at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

Around 90K words so far. About 30K of which is going to change a lot and maybe as much as another 50K to add.

He was Red. He was not even predominantly red but he was red from the belly down and the wing tip out and a large area under each eye – all of which was what he could see of himself and, given his size; that’s a lot of red. His back and sides and neck were amber to brown and he had dark brown rimming his eyes and thin vertical stripes of dark brown along his back and the base of his tail. But what he saw of himself (not being much preoccupied with what might lie behind him) from his legs on down, from his eyes out and the latter half of his tail - the part he could flick as precisely as a whip at need - was red.

It was Lewis who figured it out. Of course, it would be Lewis who figured it out. Lewis had come to the life as a child, driven by an instant and relentless passion for dragons,..

I apologize for my too-long post of the preface. I misunderstood '13 lines' as meaning '13 sentences'. I am guessing it is thirteen lines in THIS BOX and sentences are immaterial to the count!

[This message has been edited by SavantIdiot (edited August 20, 2009).]

Posted by ScardeyDog (Member # 8707) on :

I think this is a more interesting start to your book than the preface you posted earlier.

"He was Red." I take this to mean he calls himself "Red". If that's not the case consider re-wording it.

In the first paragraph I was a bit turned off by all the description. Definately leave in the parts about the wings and tail, so that we know he's not human, but I think you can pare down the rest.

The part about Lewis is interesting. I get the impression Lewis is a human, even though it's not explicitly stated. Is this the case? Does it become clear soon afterwards?

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

I find Lewis interesting. He is human, if a little awkward sometimes. He is better with dragons than with people though it is time to learn. I am a woman and I was surprised that I relate more to Lewis than to my female lead.

Okay, you're right on this one, too. Too much description. Thank you very much. Red wouldn't think about his coloring other than to associate himself with it. Which is the whole point of the first bit. The humans named him a long time ago but he named himself, too.

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

He was Red. He was not even predominantly red but most of what he could see, from his flanks down, his wing joints out and the latter half of his tail - the part he could flick as precisely as a whip - was red. The varying shades of amber and the delicate striping in darker pigment feathering down his spine he hardly noticed. What he knew best about himself was red.
It was Lewis who figured it out. Of course, it would be Lewis who figured it out. Lewis had come to the life as a child, driven by an instant and relentless passion for dragons, something which grabbed his considerable attention span one morning and never let go. He had been an eight year old boy
sitting atop a load of produce and admiring his new pocketknife

Okay, how's that? It moves past Red more quickly but we see him mostly through the eyes of others anyway. And the story is more from Lewis' perspective.

Posted by MrsBrown (Member # 5195) on :

Oh, I like dragons. You’ve got me right there. I like the idea that the dragon would have his own name for himself based on his own viewpoint. I like how he can flick his tail like a whip—obviously he is intelligent, to make that connection (and to name himself). I’m curious to find out more about his relationship with Lewis. Is this dragon good or bad, gentle or scary? I can’t tell yet, but hope to find out soon. So far I suspect he will be friendly and good, but really tough, and good to have on your side in a fight.

Whose POV do we start in, or is it omni? I have a strong preference for limited 3rd person, so if you are using omni, please ignore the following.

If Red’s POV, then it might not make sense to describe what he hardly notices.

The line “Of course, it would be Lewis who figured it out” could be in Red’s POV, or it could be omni. Since I’m not sure, my inclination is to assume it is Red’s POV. So we haven’t moved past him to Lewis yet, not really. This line definitely cannot be Lewis’ POV. Next, it sounds like we are in Red’s memories. But would Red have such clear memories about when Lewis was eight?

If you start in Red’s POV, my expectation will be that he is a major MC. Especially since it’s not a prologue. Could this start in Lewis’ POV? That would invest me in him more quickly. However, the dragon is interesting enough that you could start with his POV, if you clearly switch to Lewis soon.

It’s hard to say without seeing more.

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

I'll show you as much as you like. bwah hah hah I actually think you've put your finger on a big problem I have. What is an omni POV? Like a Celestial view? I wasn't thinking I could do that. Which is why I picked SavantIdiot as my id. Duh. That and none of the ones I really wanted were available. I have been trying to see things from Lewis' perspective but you are right, I am having trouble. And I DO want some bits to be from Red's perspective because it is interesting to imagine it.

He isn't good or bad, per se. He is an animal. I adore dragons who can speak but I couldn't bring myself to create another one. Think dog or apelike intelligence but without the eagerness to please. Arrogant. Cooperative but standoffish. With a glaring exception or two. (Not Lewis!) He works with people because he was raised to do so and we engineered him to bond to a human being. He finds us in general not all that interesting and most individuals he deals with as either 'his' meaning part of his domain or 'not his' meaning only just not-food.

So I am guessing I am starting with an omnipresent perspective. (omni, yes?) I think you've alerted me to a big problem here. I have been trying to figure out what was wrong. Why it didn't look like Lewis' perspective and it's because I've been slipping. THANK YOU THANK THANK YOU THANK YOU! I am going to go through this whole thing looking to see what my POVs really are. Lewis maybe 2/3rd of the time but the older stuff -

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

Okay, I'm excited. This is exactly the sort of thing I need to know and hoped I would get here. Third person subjective/limited narration. I think that is what I am trying to do. With a few places where I go first person objective (Red) (actually just the one place so far).

Otherwise I am narrating as if I am riding on Lewis' shoulder.

Except for bits here and there where I am telling someone's story, that is something else. The omniscient view? gaah
Is this too many?
This is OSC's website. His books are written from an omniscient viewpoint? I am thinking Ender's game.

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

Okay, I just skimmed various places and I am not too inconsistent. I am using an omniscient pov with a preference for seeing things from Lewis' perspective. Possibly a forced preference in places.

I was terrified for a minute there but WHATEVER I am doing it is mostly consistent.

Posted by MrsBrown (Member # 5195) on :

Oh my gosh you sound confused. I was there too, until I read OSC's book Character and Viewpoint. It is an absolute must-read(at least it was for me). I devoured it from cover to cover, but the POV stuff is toward the back.

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited August 27, 2009).]

Posted by Zero (Member # 3619) on :

I'm bored by the description. I'd rather get a clearer idea of who's point of view I'm in an what's on his mind.

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

Character and Viewpoint. Thanks!

Posted by MrsBrown (Member # 5195) on :

Correction: Characters and Viewpoint (By OSC)

Posted by SavantIdiot (Member # 8590) on :

I found this on Barnes and Noble and am ordering it tomorrow. Thanks so much!