I hate most of the flash-only venues. They publish too frequently, and what they publish is rarely interesting to me.

I don't know of a single flash-only venue that pays pro rates (.05/word, according to SFWA.org).

Pro rates for a 1000 word story is $50. That's the lovely thing about flash -- you can pay a relatively high rate while keeping the total outlay modest. One story per month maxes out at $600 / year, which I could (barely) handle myself. More people involved or defrayed costs (through advertising, tip jar, etc.) could increase the number of stories we could buy.

I know something about design, text processing, and Web development. I'm sure other people know more, and I'd love to get help wherever I could, but the worst case scenario is that I could publish everything myself. I could even create PDF versions of all of the stories with minimal additional effort.

If things took off, we could go to print with a magazine-ish anthology. But there's no need to, if things don't take off.

There's setup work to be done before I even get things off the ground. (That's assuming that it's something that should get off the ground.) There's ongoing effort -- marketing, slush, development, design, bill paying -- and it promises to be a labor of love than something profitable.

I don't want to start something that lasts (say) a year and dies; I want something that has legs. I'd rather take some time, think it over, get advice, and so on, than to launch too quickly and do it wrong. So if anyone is interested in talking about what to do here, I'd love a conversation around it.

Any thoughts? Private conversation can go to me at oliverhouse@gmail.com; otherwise, I'm happy to talk openly here.

I'd be happy to be part of it, but how?

It would take more than one story a month -- especially with a 1000 word limit -- to make it enticing for enough readers to subscribe. Who'd read through the slush? Who would decide what's in or out? What would the genres be limited to?

I'd vote for a general sci-fi/fantasy/horror slant. Especially if you end up in printed markets, there seem to be so few of them for those genres. And if you end up pulling a lot of people from this forum to help, then that's our speciality, so it would make sense to focus on it.

Other ways I could possibly help (though they are far off in the future):

Advertising - being at a university, there are probably a good group of budding writers here. They even have a radio show about creative writing.

I have a friend who occasionally does web design - and she's awesome about it. I don't know how much she charges, but if you want a great looking site, I could talk to her about it.

If you do a print version, have you considered offering a few pages for advertisments? Talebones (one of my favorite magazines) does it. If you can get people interested, that could help make it a little less costly.

You could also ask for Hatrackers to read through the slush pile, or donate. Just my ideas. The question I see is...what would we need to do to be taken seriously? or is that even the goal. I take it that is the goal, because of the idea of pro rates.

walt

edited to say - email me with future stuff too

Since I don't think I'll make sufficient money from subscriptions to cover the costs, it makes sense for me to let users subscribe for free. I'm better off getting a larger audience that pays nothing than I would be if I got twelve people who paid $5 each.

I think there could be a readership (note I don't say "market") for a free, completely unprofitable ezine that published one or two really good flashes (around 1000 words total) per month.

I agree that doesn't sound like much. I could publish quarterly to make it seem like each issue was bigger, but I'm not convinced that that would help; from a marketing perspective, I'd rather always have something fresh up than to have less frequent bursts of more activity.

I'd love to expand, but it depends on finances. And I don't see a lot of ways to make the zine profitable, even in the long run.

If I handle the bulk of the financial burden and effort, then I should be the ultimate judge of what's in. I'd essentially have the editor-in-chief job.

Slush is an issue, though; I've been toying with the idea of (a) having clear guidelines that segment out the kind of thing we're looking for, and (b) having a few other collaborators nominate items from the slush.

Tentative guidelines: I think I'd prefer genre fiction, specifically SF, Fantasy, Horror, Thriller, etc. No romance, kid's stuff, or slice-of-life. Ideal length would be 500-1000 words, although <500 would be acceptable; however, the story should have a setting, characterization, and a plot (including conflict), no matter how skeletal, which limits how compact it can be. "Literary" or "mainstream" could fit if it has those elements, but I wouldn't expect it to very often, and I'd probably prefer genre fiction.

I don't know who the slush readers might be. Worst case is that I open for submissions intermittently, like Baen's Universe does. Best case is that others join me in working through it. I don't know how to incorporate a business such that "investors" (scare quotes because they might not be legally recognized as such) of time or money can get any return that there might be on their investments.

I have thought a little bit about art. I don't know whether I can afford real artwork by real artists, but I might, or I might have to pay for that only in publicity. (At least, maybe that's how it is right out of the chute.) I know I can afford some stock photography, which can be very cool -- as long as it fits the story.

Yes, I'd like it to be a pro market. Here's what SFWA says:

quote:

---

To qualify a new Qualifying Professional Market, it must be found acceptable to the Membership Committee. In particular, it must satisfy the following criteria for a given date range to qualify for membership purposes:

• Payment for all works of fiction (other than reprints or serializations), either in advance of publication or on publication, at the rate of either (a) at least $2000 for a single work or (b) at least 5c/word (3c/word before 1/1/2004); and
• Must have published consistently for a period of at least one year before the market will be considered qualifying; and
• Must have a print run or circulation of at least 1000 copies, or the equivalent in other media (e.g., demonstrated downloads in electronic media); and
• Is not self-publication, vanity press, or other type of author-paid or fee-charging press, as demonstrated such as (1) by having published at least ten distinct works by different natural persons during the date range; and (2) by authors not having paid or been requested to pay fees or give consideration of any kind.

---

"Must have a print run or circulation of at least 1000 copies, or the equivalent in other media (e.g., demonstrated downloads in electronic media)"

Does that mean that 1000 other people have to pay for the 1000 downloads, or if they just download and read the stories.

All the other parts of the list would be accomplished at the end of the first year.

quote:

---

Does that mean that 1000 other people have to pay for the 1000 downloads, or if they just download and read the stories.

---

What about starting at 1/2 the pro rate, just until you at least reach the 1000/month readership required? That would create a curve to the financial outlay. Also, what about ad-supported stuff? Not annoying pop-ups, but the left pane/right pane/lower pane google stuff. Typically it's done with targeting advertising. I am sure it could take the edge off the cost outlay, though not sure at what point it becomes profitable.

Anyway - I think it's a neat idea. I like the genre limitation, though personal preference - get that horror stuff out of there. This may inhibit my effectiveness as a slush reader, I really don't do horror/gore or anything that will give me nightmares.

--have links to editorially selected stories on other sites with (possibly reciprocal) permission.

--have a Reader Slush Pile section, somewhat like Baen's Universe Slush, that is only minimally moderated. Allowing a place for people to participate (including showing their hindquarters) through comments will produce hits. It becomes a "good" problem to have if this is successful, but it will affect your Internet hosting costs.

As a side note: Evil Editor lately does writing exercises wherein he gives a scenario and the minions write a scene/story limited to 200 words. The latest set should show up later in the afternoon today (Saturday). This stuff is filled with EE lore, but it is usually pretty good for 200 words.

Good luck. This sounds like fun.

I'm only an undergrad, but I have a strong interest in writing in general and also am curious about the publishing world and/or how to get involved in it. If you need someone to go through a slush pile, or even take a closer look at some stories for editing, I might be up for it. Also, if you ever need anyone for brainstorming ideas, just like advertising, publicity, how to get readership, etc. I would be interested in just helping out wherever I could. I had thought about what it might take to start up a professional E-Zine, so I think it would be cool to be involved.

If you want an invitation, send me an email.

I have a bit of thinking to do to set everything up right, but the fact that others are considering actual financial involvement means that the possibilities are better than I thought they might be.

Are you using the "advanced" features such as photos for group members, or will just the mail list do?

Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson!
---Wouldn't a F-F story from OSC make a nice
---inaugural edition?
Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson! Orson!

I have the advanced features available, though I don't know what we'll use them for.

I would love to have an OSC original flash for the inaugural issue -- which is all the more reason to make sure everything's right before soliciting him or other great writers. To become professional, behave professionally; to be taken seriously, be serious. So we'll want to pay pro rates from the get-go, and have a real Web site where people can see what's happening and get excited about it before it ever goes fully public.

It's going to be very exciting -- slowly at first.

It's not all perfect, but I think we're off to a good start. Now that we've begun, I may even be able to hang out on Hatrack a little bit more...for better or for worse.

Thanks for the work, oliverhouse. Kudos to you, and IB for the stunning artwork.

Jayson Merryfield

PS: Expect a submission from me eventually....