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» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Hatrack Groups » Wotf Critique Group -- 2011 Q04 (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Wotf Critique Group -- 2011 Q04
coralm
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Sorry I'm so slow. I did get the third entry for group two, but haven't had a chance to look at it. (Week long meeting at the day job last week, ugh.) As far as my entry goes, I'm still plugging away at it, hopefully I'll have a draft ready by the 2nd draft date.
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LDWriter2
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But when did Wotf Change the registration page? I tried four or six weeks ago and I still got the old page. Eventually I will give this new page a second try.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited August 02, 2011).]


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Brad R Torgersen
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I implemented the new registration confirmation plugin about two weeks ago. Give it a whirl. Let me know about any issues.

http://forum.writersofthefuture.com/


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WriterDan
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Four days to go until our second-round of crits. I thought I'd get the groups up now, just in case anyone is ready early.

Here are the groups as they currently sit:

Group1:
Writer Dan
Meredith
francisbruno
wirelesslibrarian

Group2:
Axeminister
Owasm
Coralm
mbwood

Group3:
Wonderbus
Crank
Brendan
History (Dr. Bob)

Group4:
LDWriter2
thomaskcarpenter
Utahute72
Tiergan

First-round crits were within the group. Second-round crits will be handled between groups.

If you're in Group 1, send your story to Group 2.

If you're in Group 2, send your story to Group 3.

If you're in Group 3, send your story to Group 4.

If you're in Group 4, send your story to Group 1.

Or, if you're like me, GET BACK TO WRITING!!!


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Wordcaster
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Hi,

Sorry - I didn't get on the ball on time this quarter. If anyone wants an extra critique and wants to exchange, I have a 4300 wd SF story that I've written and gone through revisions with.

If interested, send me an email with your story and I'll reply with a copy of mine.


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axeminister
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Giggity Giggity...

I get a Dr. Bob crit. I'm placing this quarter for sure.

Axe


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WriterDan
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You want in, Wordcaster? We're all about being inclusive here. Even if you're late. Erm. Especially if you're late. Join up with Group 1. So, send your story to Group 2 and expect stories from Group 4.

Updated groups for second round crits:

Group1:
WriterDan
Meredith
francisbruno
wirelesslibrarian
Wordcaster

Group2:
Axeminister
Owasm
Coralm
mbwood

Group3:
Wonderbus
Crank
Brendan
History

Group4:
LDWriter2
thomaskcarpenter
Utahute72
Tiergan

Again:

If you're in Group 1, send your story to Group 2.

If you're in Group 2, send your story to Group 3.

If you're in Group 3, send your story to Group 4.

If you're in Group 4, send your story to Group 1.


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Wordcaster
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Cool, thanks for being flexible -- i'd love to join. I'll ship off the story tonight.

My email is in my profile for others to send their ms.


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coralm
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Ummm. Okay, that last bit really confused me. The stories I've had up to now have all been *from* group 2, the group that I'm in. I have not received any emails from other groups until Wordcaster. Which part is wrong?
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Brendan
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Corolm

The first round was to your own group. Wordcastor is arriving so late, WriterDan is suggesting that he join in for the second round. At least, I think that is what he is meaning.


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LDWriter2
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I agree with Brendan. But also Wordcaster is early for the next round, I think. Which is okay according to Writer Dan.


I'm glad the due date is Sunday, I'm only a quarter of the way done revising my story. His is early, mine might be a bit late.


The way I'm changing things: taking parts of scenes out, moving descriptions, tightening sentences, adding a sentence or two, etc, I almost want my original group to reread it to see if they think it's improved.



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coralm
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Oh! I get it now. Sorry for being so newbie.
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Wordcaster
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Yes,

Shipped it early in case someone finishes their WIP and has time to get ahead of the game.

Sorry for the late intrusion; I'll do my best to provide valuable critiques.


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WriterDan
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Bingo, peoples.

Looking forward to reading some good stories this time around.


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mbwood
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Hi,

I've fallen behind due to an unscheduled visit to hospital (4 days) for some relatively minor (but uncomfortable) surgery. I've got stuff to catch up on and then will get back on critting.

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
MBW

[This message has been edited by mbwood (edited August 05, 2011).]


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Utahute72
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I'm stuck in Syracuse trying to help my son move after completing his MBA. I have made some improvements, but haven't addressed the main issue yet. I probably won't be able to do much over the next week or so.
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History
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Dear Group 3, thank you very much for your critiques of my Round 1 possible WOTF Q4 entry.

I've forwarded my revision to Group 4. Thanks to thomaskcarpenter for his quick review. If the rest of you (LDWriter, Utahute72, and Tiergan) did not receive the story, or require it in a different format, please let me know.

Group 2, Round 2. I received, critiqued, and returned your story mbwood. Please inform me if you did not receive it.
(And don't hate me. I tend to be very objective and clinical, some have muttered 'savage', with my critiques. Axeminster, I look forward to your story. "oohahh hahhahahah" "Mine is an evil laugh"). My vacation ends today and now I must pay by working 14 days straight with six nights of call. I am also away the last week of the month and will be unable to critique then, so I humbly beg your stories as soon as possible if we are to keep to Writer Dan's deadline.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob


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francisbruno
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I'm going to try to get my story out tonight. I need to go through it one more time.
I'm at OSC bootcamp this week, so if I miss tonight, it might be a couple of days, but I am going to get it out. Please note, this means it may take me a couple of extra days to get a response back to the group I am critiquing.


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Tiergan
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I got it Dr. Bob. It will be day or two until I get it done though.

All in group 1, I am running behind on my rewrite, but should have it out by end of week.


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axeminister
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Mine's out to the group who consist of folks all over the world.

Group 3, please let me know if you didn't receive.

Axe


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History
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Got your story, axe.
I'll get to it as soon as I can.
(Now where did I put that hatchet and grindstone...)

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob


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LDWriter2
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As he knows, I received Dr. Bob's and I have sent out my story to group One.


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mbwood
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Hi, this is mbwood in group 2;

I've been running hard to get caught up and have completed crits on Wireless Librarian; Wordcaster; Francisbruno;& Meredith.

I haven't received anything from WriterDan yet...

I hope I haven't delayed anybody with my crits.
MBW


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Owasm
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It's been a long time since I sent my 2nd draft out only a day late. Woo Hoo!

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LDWriter2
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Hmmm, did someone else send me a story besides Dr. Bob?

Seems like I recall one but I can't find it if someone did. It would have been before his.


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Crank
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Now that I've somehow managed to put out a few dozen of life's fires, here's where I stand with the WotF group:

Group 4 will be getting my story within the next day or so.

From my group (3):
I've returned Dr. Bob's story.

I've not received anyone else's story. Not bashing, 'cuz I've not sent you mine, either. Conisdering we're now getting stories from Group 2...if you would still like to critique mine, let me know, and I'll send it to you when I send it to Group 4.

Group 2:
I'm currently reading mbwood's story, and should have it back to him later tonight.

I've also received stories from Axeminister and Owasm. You're in the queue.


S!
S!


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LDWriter2
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I will be sending Dr. Bob's crit Thursday night. But I'm afraid there won't be much to it. So far I can only find one thing about the writing and two personal items.

Dr. Bob you seem to be one of the writer's I wish I could copy... hardly any nitpicks... how you guys find them all is beyond me. There may be a couple I missed while reading the story but I suspect very few... of course you may not produce that many.

So far his seems to be the only story I have, well as of two to three hours ago that is. I will be checking that e-mail address again in a few minutes. But you may have to wait 'till Monday, I'm going out of town Friday night, be back Sunday. Nice anniversary trip to Yosemite.


I sent it tonight.


[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited August 11, 2011).]


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Crank
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I just sent my story to Group 4. If you didn't receive it, let me know, and I'll be happy to resend.

Group 3: Wonderbus, Brendan: I'm still available. If either of you have finished your story, and would like an extra pair of eyes and an extra opinion, send it my way. If you would still like to read my story, let me know that as well.

Now...onto critting the rest of the Group 2 stories. I seem to have not received one...

S!
S!


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mbwood
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Hello,

are any members of this group going to the SF WorldCon at Reno, NV this week?

I will be there, and I'd like to meet fellow fans who belong to this group.

All the best,

MBW


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Brendan
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Crank

Still working on mine. As it has evolved, I've realised I need a different ending. Work is very busy at the moment.

You can still send yours here if you want, Crank, or hold out until your next round of revision.

I've had 3 from group (1 yet to critique, OWASMs)

Brendan


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Crank
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Brendan,

I will take you ou on that offer and send it to you after I make revisions based on Group 4's feedback. It will be a few weeks; as I told a few others, I am taking a small vacation from my WotF story.

Send yours whenever you feel it's ready.

S!
S!


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History
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I've received and returned critiques on stories by Mbwood, Axeminister, and Owasm's from Group 3. Just missing, yours, Coralm's. If you can, please get it to me this week [I'm on call 4 of 5 days next week then I'll be away for a week].

My proposed Q4 entry is still a wopping 16,814 words--but now within submission requirements, and "tighter" if not svelte.

My thanks to everyone for their critiques:
--LDWriter and Tomcarpenter for their positive words,
--Utahute72, Tiergan, and Crank for their editorial wisdom,
--and special thanks to Wonderbus and Nick Tchan for their detailed suggested line edits and valuable lessons in the craft.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob


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Utahute72
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I don't know how much wisdom is in my comments, but you're welcome.
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axeminister
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I'm still waiting to hear back from:

CoralM
Crank
Wonderbus

At this point, unless you guys have already started reading, I'd just as soon send an update to you. (Already spoke to Crank about this.) Should be by Wednesday.

I owe:
Meredith
Wonderbus (His WCE entry, not WotF)

I need:
CoralM (from round 1)
WriterDan (from 2Q 2010)

Axe


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WriterDan
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Hey Dr. Bob,

Just wanted to throw an additional heads up your way, despite the fact that I've already mentioned something in the opening discussion post of this thread. 17k words is the "official" limit for WotF story entries, but the more realistic one, and the one that Kathy really runs by, is 68 pages of properly formatted manuscript (17k words divided by 250 words/page = approx 68 pages). She's said that if the story is really good, and the manuscript is an additional page or two, she'll probably let it slide, but otherwise it'll get rejected. I've noticed in my writing that 68 pages typically comes WAY earlier than 17k words. So, I thought I'd make sure that you knew about this unofficial limit for WotF, as your stated word-total above is so close to the word-limit. Regardless, best of luck.


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History
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Thanks Writer Dan.

I admit it is a bit perplexing.

First, I've discovered that word count varies with the choice of word processing program. Assuming Microsoft Word is the likely industry standard, I've downloaded the newest MSWord 2010 software.

My word count (16,800) divided by 250 words per page would suggest a manuscript length of 67 pages.

However, with standard manuscript format (1 inch margins all around, double-spacing, and 12 point font), the choice of font varies the average word count per page and, therefore, the manuscript length:

* Times New Roman (my "default"): 58 pages.
* New Courier: 76 pages.

I don't know how Ms Wentworth will make her determination.

I've been told there are many strikes against this story, including its length and the current day setting. Either may result in its automatic rejection. I hope not.

However, I am pleased those who've read it have found it entertaining, the writing quality adequate, and the subject matter (not merely the writing) worthy of follow-up discussion by email. I enjoyed participating in this quarter's Hatrack WOTF Groups, even if Ms Wentworth tosses it back to me unread.

With apologies to Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.: "So it goes."

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob


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LDWriter2
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Hmm, interesting question. Do they have a default font that every manuscript gets changed to? electronic submissions of course.


But is Times Roman okay for them with paper manuscripts?

But too bad a modern day setting would mean an auto dismissal. There's good writing and stories in that time setting... including yours Dr. Bob.



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WriterDan
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I always use New Courier font because Courier is what's listed as the font in Vonda McIntyre's Manuscript Preparation paper, this is the formatting that Kathy has referenced directly, andI don't have a plain "Courier" font on my computer. I've also brought this issue up with Kathy directly, with the conversation coming to a head about whether or not using Times New Roman is valid. A few other people were in on the conversation, and at that point in time Kathy said we were all over-thinking this and not to make it more difficult than it was and to just make our stories significantly shorter than the limit and we wouldn't have to worry about it. Grumble, grumble. The fact that using Times New Roman in a manuscript allows for several more pages though (as any test on the matter will show, and your comments about the 58/76 page difference, Dr. Bob, reiterate) seems to suggest that some kind of more specific limitation should be used. I've not been able to wring this out of anyone official though. From what Kathy has said though, it's a straight 68-pages limitation. Sounds like she just assumes the manuscript is formatted "correctly". I don't know that they change anything about the manuscripts with regard to formatting for electronic entries, Louis. Maybe Brad would be able to find out something more about all this, as he's directly involved with WotF now.

Glad you've had a good experience here anyhow, Dr. Bob. Best of luck, and hope to see you around again.


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History
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If New Courier is the required (or expected) font then I'm disqualified. >sigh<

The WOTF Word Count limit using New Courier 12pt font, double-spacing, and 1 inch margins would be 15,000 words, by my calculation.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

[This message has been edited by History (edited August 17, 2011).]


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LDWriter2
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Hmm, unless I missed something there's nothing in the official rules about fonts. I know that with other markets they want serrated or whatever that word is, fonts. Courier is suppose to be one example of it but there are others. Some include Times New Roman as an example also.

But I always use plain Courier.

I was interrupted before I could say that if one font was that important, it seems like they should say something. Especially since a lot of us use plain Courier- unless otherwise stated- and I know a couple of writers who always use Times New Roman-unless otherwise stated- because they like it and it's usually okay to use.

[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited August 18, 2011).]


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Brendan
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The following is on their FAQ.

quote:
How do I tell if my story is within the acceptable word count limit?
A good rule of thumb is that when a page is properly formatted (double-spaced lines, 1 inch margins, 12 point font) each page will contain approximately 250 words. This would make a 17,000 word story to be about 65 to 68 pages in length.

Bear in mind the term "properly formatted", which suggests the standards of professional publication are upheld by the contest. This method of determining word count has been around since before computers existed, and is an indication of required page space (which is more important than the actual number of words when planning the layout of a book or magazine). Dialog often produces fewer words for the same amount of page space, and this method captures that and gives an equivalent "word count" for the unused space at the end of paragraphs. Consequently, the use of a lot of dialog will result in fewer words to reach the "word count" limit. (Or, visa versa, you will receive more pay per word if you sell stories with dialog.)


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LDWriter2
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Hmm, this thread seems to have gone quiet. I think I only received two stories for the second round. And only two crits back for my story... need to double check that though.


Anyone send theirs in yet? I gotta get to work on my final revision this week.


And it sounds like Dr. Bob is out this quarter and that's too bad, he may have had one of the better written stories. Someone should want it though. And next quarter he can do a shorter better written story.


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History
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Don't write me out yet, LD.

The story is 16,800 words and 58 pages as submitted using 1 inch margins and 12 pt Times New Roman font. The choice of font issue remains unclear.

However, long stories tend not to be WOTF winners, I am told, so your prediction may still be correct. Anyway, it is submitted and I'll have to wait and see what Ms Wentworth decides.

As for writing something shorter next quarter...
"Eh. He don't know me too well."
--Bugs Bunny, Warner Brothers

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob


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WriterDan
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Kathy hasn't said anything about font that I know of. She's just referenced Vonda McIntyre's formatting, and that paper says Courier. So. I know loads of people submit stuff with TNR font and I haven't seen/heard anything to suggest that doing so will get someone a straight reject. Thus, for all intents and purposes, Dr. Bob, I think you're perfectly fine. For what that's worth. lol. Um, nothing? rofl. Anyhow, best of luck.

I'm still not done with my story. Shock and awe, I know. I also haven't received anything for round two crits. I seem to be on the guilty end of both fronts this quarter. Deadline to finish my dissertation is this month though. So, hoping for some good progress on all fronts in the next few weeks. Hope everyone is doing well. And if not, consider this another kick in the backside. Next quarter's crit group goes up next week!


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Tiergan
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I havent sent my story back out. Work has slammed me to the tune of 12 hour days, 6 days a week. Wrote a ton a week ago, but havent even been able to look at it in the week since. Still working on it, but might not make the 2nd round, but hoping for the third.
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Owasm
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Finished my story tonight. Thanks to those who critted my story. Every one helped out.

Now to let it sit for awhile and to think of a better title.


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Utahute72
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OK I just sent my story out to group one. Better a little late than a lot.

Crank, I haven't seen yours yet, can you resend.


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axeminister
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Well, I've decided mine is as good as it's going to get.
So, for those who have it, you're off the hook.
Those who are waiting, you're off the hook too. Go work on your own stuff.

I still owe Meredith hers, and of course anyone who sends to me from my group or group 1.

Axe


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WriterDan
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1500 words written last night. Oh joy of joys. Actually came out pretty quick too.
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mbwood
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Hello, Writer Dan -

er, it seems that you're still writing your piece and time is ticking on. I will crit when you get done, however, you still have to revise after critting. Your schedule.


Hello, Wonderbus -

I still haven't received a crit from you. Currently, my story version has incorporated many of the suggestions from the critters in Group 3 (thank you Crank, Brendan and History for your thoughtful comments), which may mean your crit may not mean a lot. The choice is up to you.

Remember the first rule of writing... Write!

WorldCon at Reno was full of valuable panels and lots of fun.


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