Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » Trip 16

   
Author Topic: Trip 16
reazwoz
Member
Member # 2223

 - posted      Profile for reazwoz   Email reazwoz         Edit/Delete Post 
Tell me what you think.

***

I saw things as everyone sees them outside my porthole window. Everything was right-side-up just like the first maps of Europe; just like the last maps being made today. As solitude, panic and boredom creeped into me, I thought that a little bit of company would calm me down and give me something to do. I flipped backwards and kicked my already ajar door open. My legs hit strong enough against the hatch that I was able to rebound off the hallway wall, do a front flip in a backwards direction and close my door with my feet just as I exited my cabin.

The flourescent lighted hallway pierced the pupils of my photosensitive eyes. I cringed when I came to the realization that this torture would continue for another two minutes until I made it to the cockpit. Because of bright pain and other curious thoughts, at the end of the hallway where it split into a 'T' I rebounded backwards and floated back towards my room.

I've been in space for three days and three nights but I had already mastered zero-g movement. I felt proud to be doing flips in the hallways as my co-pilots vomited into air tight bags and tubes. My learning curve for things is always pretty fast. I'm here as an environmental controller meaning I'm in charge of oxygen and nitrogen levels, air filtration and waste management. It's an easy job so it leaves me with a lot of lonely free time. Two pilots are russian and the only other person is an american woman who doesn't feel it is necessary to have a relationship with co-workers outside of the workplace.

With all these curious thoughts in my head I suddenly became curiouser.


Posts: 30 | Registered: Nov 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
TaShaJaRo
Member
Member # 2354

 - posted      Profile for TaShaJaRo   Email TaShaJaRo         Edit/Delete Post 
Consider putting the first two sentences of paragraph three at the very beginning of the story. I was extremely confused until I read those two lines. Having those as an introduction into the rest of the seemingly bizarre movements will help the reader immensely.

There is no conflict introduced that I could tell. There is nothing that urges me to keep reading to find out what happens. Consider hinting at whatever conflict is going to arise.


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
benskia
Member
Member # 2422

 - posted      Profile for benskia   Email benskia         Edit/Delete Post 
Howdy. I'm not sure if I can justify posting comments here, seeing as I've only ever written a few pages ever myself.
But I do read a lot, so my thoughts may be worth considering maybe not...

First up, the feelings of 'solitude, panic and boredom' all being thrown together is a little odd. I cant say that I can imagine many people who are panicking feeling bored at the same time. Maybe there is a better word for what you're trying to say.

Also, I wasn't really that interested in all the detail about how he flipped and rebounded etc around the place (I think i've fallen into this trap though in the only thing ive written before. People told me that my intro was too action detailed as well).

Also, I dont feel anything at all for the character. But, maybe I would do later on after the story gets going a bit.

Last of all, the final talked about the character having 'all these curious thoughts' in his head. Well, I didn't find anything curious about what he was thinking so far. Maybe he has got some mystery to solve or some inquiring to do, but you haven't said so yet. Perhaps that should be the start? The character wondering about something so that the reader has a sense of why?

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh. But, I find it hard to be tactfull when writing criticism.

Hope it helps though.


Posts: 329 | Registered: Mar 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
Christine
Member
Member # 1646

 - posted      Profile for Christine   Email Christine         Edit/Delete Post 
"Tell me what you think."

Ok, but I think about a lot of things so we might be here for a while.

"I saw things as everyone sees them outside my porthole window. DO YOU MEAN AS EVERYONE WHO IS OUTSIDE YOUR PORTHOLD WINDOW SEES THEM OR WELL, I'M NOT SURE WHAT ELSE YOU MIGHT MEAN. Everything was right-side-up just I WONDER IF THIS ADVERB IS NECESSARY like the first maps of Europe; just AGAIN, I WONDER IF IT'S NECESSARY like the last maps being made today. As solitude, panic and boredom creeped into me, I thought that a little bit of company would calm me down and give me something to do. OK, I GET THAT HE'S IN A SPACE SHIP BUT WHY IS HE FEELING THESE EMOTIONS? IN AND OF THEMSELVES, I'M NOT FEELING ANYTHING. I flipped backwards and kicked my ***already ajar*** AWKWARD door open. My legs hit strongLY enough against the hatch that I was able to rebound off the hallway wall, do a front flip in a backwards direction COMMA and close my door with my feet just as I exited my cabin.

The flourescent FLOURESCENT IS NOT AN ADVERB AND IS IMPROPERLY USED IN THIS CASE lighted hallway pierced the pupils of my photosensitive eyes. WHY ARE HIS EYES PHOTOSENSITIVE? I cringed when I came to the realization that this torture would continue for another two minutes until I made it to the cockpit. WHY? Because of bright pain and other curious thoughts, WHAT BRIGHT PAIN? WHY IS HE IN PAIN FROM THE LIGHTS? WHAT ARE THESE CURIOUS THOUGHTS? at the end of the hallway where it split into a 'T' COMMA IF YOU WANT TO PHRASE IT THIS WAY....PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE AWKWARD AND WOULD PUT THE ACTION BEFORE THE MODIFIER I rebounded backwards and floated back towards my room.

I've been in space for three days and three nights but I had already mastered zero-g movement. THE TENSE IS INCONSISTENT IN THIS SENTENCE. "I HAVE" IS PRESENT AND "i HAD IS PAST PERFECT" I felt proud to be doing flips in the hallways as my co-pilots vomited into air tight bags and tubes. My learning curve for things is always pretty fast. I'm here as an environmental controller COMMA meaning I'm in charge of oxygen and nitrogen levels, air filtration COMMA and waste management. It's an easy job so it leaves me with a lot of lonely free time. IT FEELS LIKE YOU ARE MISSING A "THE" HERE Two pilots are russian CAPITALIZE and the only other person is an american CAPITALIZE woman who doesn't feel it is necessary to have a relationship with co-workers outside of the workplace.

With all these curious WHY ARE THESE THOUGHTS CURIOUS? thoughts in my head I suddenly became curiouser. CUTSY...MIGHT WORK IF THIS IS YA OR CHILDREN'S BUT IT FEELS WRONG FOR THIS PIECE"

************************

Ok, after all this I'd say this opening needs quite a bit of work, to be honest. First of all, nothing ihere particularly piqued my interest. There is some acrobatics going on but no action that is meaningful, and then we slip into some exposition. There is a lot of emotions being told rather than shown. (See the attitude vs emotion thread in open discussion) and in this case it's really not working for me because I'm not even sure why he would feel any of these things. There were also quite a few grammar errors that I flagged. (Hopefully I flagged them accurately, I'm not perfect, either. )


Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Christine
Member
Member # 1646

 - posted      Profile for Christine   Email Christine         Edit/Delete Post 
p.s. benskia, I'm going to start a thread on open discussion about critiquing that you should probably read.
Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
RavenStarr
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for RavenStarr   Email RavenStarr         Edit/Delete Post 
I like it very much… despite all the comments that were already made that I pretty much agree with… but I like it. It's showing a wee bit of "Ender's Game" influence… but, shhh, I won't tell anyone…
I like the title too… I have no idea why… it just works for me… and I don't really like most of the titles people have been coming up with either… but yours… is unexplainably working for me… I don't know, maybe it's the just espresso kicking in… but it works…

Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post 
What Christine said, plus:

>just like the first maps of Europe; just like the last maps being made today. HUH? EARLY MAPS OF EUROPE, IIRC, HAD EAST AT THE TOP; HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO THE PORTHOLE? WHAT ARE THE LAST MAPS LIKE?
>As solitude, panic and boredom creeped into
PANIC IS INTERESTING. WHY'S HE SCARED?

>The flourescent lighted hallway pierced the >pupils of my photosensitive eyes. I cringed
LIGHT DOES TEND TO PIERCE PUPILS!

>I felt proud to be doing flips in the
I THOUGHT HE WAS PANICKY.

>american woman who doesn't feel it is necessary to have a relationship with co-workers outside of the workplace.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF SHIP/PLANE WE'RE ON, OR WHY HE'S PANICKY, OR WHERE THEY'RE GOING. I DON'T CARE THAT THERE'S A WOMAN HERE WHO DOESN'T DATE CO-WORKERS.

>With all these curious thoughts in my head I suddenly became curiouser.
"CURIOSER" ISN'T A WORD. LEWIS CARROLL WAS JOKING WHEN HE USED IT. ARE THESE CURIOUS THOUGHTS? WAS HE ALREADY CURIOUS? I COULDN'T TELL.


Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
djvdakota
Member
Member # 2002

 - posted      Profile for djvdakota   Email djvdakota         Edit/Delete Post 
Forgive me if I sound harsh, but this is a good example of why first-person narrative very often fails.

From the narrative given it seems like the POV character can do no wrong. He 'mastered zero-g' and was 'doing flips' while everyone else was still puking. And the acrobatics he does to get himself out of his room are obviously showing off to your reader, since none of the other characters see it.

It's OK (usually), in third person, to tell of a character that seems to be darn near perfect, but to do it in first person only represents your POV character as full of himself. Very unlikeable. Even in third person, a character like this will not be particularly popular. But in first person he's downright detestable. He's like the star of the High School football team who struts down the hallways ignoring the 'lesser folk.'

Try rewriting in third person, or rewrite your character as an observer of a different main character.

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited March 10, 2005).]


Posts: 1672 | Registered: Apr 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
RavenStarr
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for RavenStarr   Email RavenStarr         Edit/Delete Post 
…Or… just leave it completely in first person exactly how it is and if the character comes off as being a little conceited or vain... so what... that's pretty much the definition of the concept of defining a character. One reader doesn't like a vain character (who sounds to be just as vain as the character )… but I see no reason to change it…

wbriggs: ">The fluorescent lighted hallway pierced the >pupils of my photosensitive eyes. I cringed
LIGHT DOES TEND TO PIERCE PUPILS!"

You're right… what's your point?

">I felt proud to be doing flips in the
I THOUGHT HE WAS PANICKY."

Have you ever jumped off a wall the height of a 5-story building, with nothing but a crudely tied rope wrapped around your groin to dangle from, and the attention span of the guy below you to save you if you screw up, on top of the usual fear of heights…? That's panic… but yet, I still flew down in three hops, followed by a sincere battle cry of "Outlaws!"… That’s pride. I think his concept is pretty simple to understand… I have other scenarios that could help define it for you, if you'd like…

""CURIOSER" ISN'T A WORD."

I thought it was in first person… can you think of a reason for why the character wouldn't use that word, other than it just not being a word? You, me, and everyone who reads it very clearly know what it means, right?
I noticed you didn't object to the word "Reflexively" in the other thread... you even suggested it in one of your critiques... "reflexively" isn't actually a word either... but... of'course... we know what it means, and that's good enough...

[This message has been edited by RavenStarr (edited March 11, 2005).]


Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
reazwoz
Member
Member # 2223

 - posted      Profile for reazwoz   Email reazwoz         Edit/Delete Post 
Okay... well I'm glad I peaked your interest anyway.

I write this in a basically free association style meaning... I didn't go back to nitpick at grammar but the things you said do make sense.

Other than that you just sound too anxious to read the rest of it. I'll link the rest of it some time in the future.

Sorry for the profanity but the use of CAPSLOCK when critiquing makes you sound like an asshole.

Thanks for the comments though.


Posts: 30 | Registered: Nov 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post 
RavenStar, these comments were for the author. You are free to ignore them.

reazwoz, I think it was obvious that Christine uses ALL CAPS in critiques to distinguish comments from original text, and it's effective, so I now do the same. Be aware that every time you insult a critiquer, you reduce the pool of people who will be willing to help you in the future.


Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
rickfisher
Member
Member # 1214

 - posted      Profile for rickfisher   Email rickfisher         Edit/Delete Post 
You beat me to it, briggs.

reazwoz, I might add (or clarify) that you not only eliminate as a critiquer the person you've insulted, but many other potential critiquers who might have given you good advice in the future, but now never will.

RavenStarr: (1) I think the problem with "panic" is that nothing in this passage suggests any faint resemblance to panic, except the bald assertion of it. (2)Light always "pierces" pupils. Using that word here is serious overwriting. And all eyes, except those totally blind, are "photosensitive," so why mention it? Something like "I squinted at . . ." would be better. (3) "reflexively" is too a word. But I'll grant you that a first person character can say "curiouser" if he wants.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited March 12, 2005).]


Posts: 932 | Registered: Jul 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
RavenStarr
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for RavenStarr   Email RavenStarr         Edit/Delete Post 
wbriggs: "RavenStarr, these comments were for the author. You are free to ignore them."

Are you under the impression that reazwoz was for some reason incapable of reading my post?

wbriggs; rickfisher:
"Be aware that every time you insult a critiquer, you reduce the pool of people who will be willing to help you in the future."

"reazwoz, I might add (or clarify) that you not only eliminate as a critiquer the person you've insulted, but many other potential critiquers who might have given you good advice in the future, but now never will."

He wasn't insulting anyone, he was stating that he was offended due to a misunderstanding of the meaning of cap-locked letters on here as opposed to its meaning anywhere else (which he explained rather clearly). No offense, but you sound like your whining... please stop...

rickfisher:"I think the problem with "panic" is that nothing in this passage suggests any faint resemblance to panic, except the bald assertion of it."

I slightly agree, but not entirely. reazwoz, I'd say, you should either use a word lighter than "panic" (ex: nervous, agitated, etc.), or if you wish to keep such a strong word, add more reasoning to support it.

"Light always "pierces" pupils. Using that word here is serious overwriting."

I still completely disagree with this one. Light does not always "pierce" the pupils... if they do, then you may wish to get your eyes check, or maybe tone down on the number of times your getting your eyes dilated.

"And all eyes, except those totally blind, are "photosensitive," so why mention it? Something like "I squinted at . . ." would be better.""

reazwoz, the best you may wish to do would be to maybe change it to "extra photosensitive", for those who aren't able to pick up the fact that when someone states something like "my photosensitive eyes", that it's usually taken as an understatement. Of'course, I would already understand "photosensitive" referring to the sensitiveness that your pupils have when you first wake-up in the morning...

""reflexively" is too a word."

You got me on that one... I rechecked it... my mistake. But, yea... my point still stands.

reazwoz: Ok... I prefer to avoid repeating critiques that have been made that I agree with because it just seems to be rubbing it in, and isn't exactly productive (productive the first time it was said... but the 7th time... not so much), so... I'll try to avoid it... but anyways. From what I can tell from you 13 lines, your still spewing ideas... don't get me wrong, spewing ideas to come up with a story and leave the ideas to be reorganized later to make some sense is ok, I do it all the time, but I wouldn't exactly be willing to put any of my idea spewings up for critiquing... I would rather wait 'til at least my second draft to get run through the gauntlet. Not that you can't learn anything from these critiques, but you can probably learn more from the second draft. Right now, almost everything is obviously out of order...

ex:
"the only other person is an American woman who doesn't feel it is necessary to have a relationship with co-workers outside of the workplace."

The fact that you told us that isn't quite as out of place as the fact that it was the First Person narrator who told us that... why does he know this information? I'm sure that in your head it's arranged to make sense... but right now... it's not. When I said that I like it though, I was serious, although, I was referring more to the ideas that you were spewing that I liked, with high hopes that you will pull that mess together somewhere close to what I'm imagining you will.

"Sorry for the profanity but the use of CAPSLOCK when critiquing makes you sound like an asshole."

Yea it's a bit out of the norm and it can be a bit jarring at first, but don't worry, you'll get used to it...

[This message has been edited by RavenStarr (edited March 14, 2005).]


Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post 
I refuse the invitation to flame war. Even if I wanted to, Kathleen would never approve.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
RavenStarr
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for RavenStarr   Email RavenStarr         Edit/Delete Post 
Good… because I wasn't flaming anybody. You are aware that this is a critiquing forum, right?
Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
A critiquing forum that frowns on the use of profanity, even when people apologize in advance.

Also, when we say "critiquing forum" around here, we mean constructive critiques. And constructive critiques mean that we build instead of tearing down, we learn instead of complaining about the lessons, and if we really have to say something negative, we explain why it's negative and why we feel we really have to say it instead of just dumping on people.


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
Christine
Member
Member # 1646

 - posted      Profile for Christine   Email Christine         Edit/Delete Post 
Wow. I forgot that I had even responded to this one and haven't read the past several comments. I'm a bit....flabbergasted might be the right word.

For the record, by calling me an asshole (either directly or indirectly as the case may have been) you have, in fact, made it easy for me to keep from critiquing any further work of yours. There are many people who ask for help and I have to pick and choose which ones to spend my time on. I will no longer spend any time on you or your work.

I went to a great deal of trouble to do an in-line critique of these thirteen lines rather than summing it all up. In this case, I felt that the at-the-moment feelings were more relevant than usual because each subsequent sentence was effecting my judgment of the story. I choose ALL CAPS despite the yelling connotation because it is easy and because on a critiquing site I felt it was entirely understood what the meaning was. I usually even say that my comments are in ALL CAPS, but I forgot this time. I did not expect that missed detail to constitute a charge of sounding like an ass.

Responses to critiques come in two forms: "thank you" or a clarifying question. There is no other response. "...the use of CAPSLOCK when critiquing makes you sound like an asshole." is right out.


Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Christine
Member
Member # 1646

 - posted      Profile for Christine   Email Christine         Edit/Delete Post 
I apologize for stepping on your toes, Kathleen. We seem to have been writing our responses at the same time.

For my part, I consider this matter closed and will not respond to this thread again.


Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
Even if you won't see this, Christine, I want to go on record as saying that you didn't step on my toes.

I appreciate it when people in this forum try to help me do my job. I can't always keep up on what happens here, and I'm very grateful for the cool heads and wise responses of others like Christine, and others whom I'd name, but I'd be afraid of leaving someone out. I hope you know who you are, because I really do need you and your help.


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
RavenStarr
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for RavenStarr   Email RavenStarr         Edit/Delete Post 
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury: "Also, when we say "critiquing forum" around here, we mean constructive critiques. And constructive critiques mean that we build instead of tearing down, we learn instead of complaining about the lessons, and if we really have to say something negative, we explain why it's negative and why we feel we really have to say it instead of just dumping on people."

Yea... good thing I followed all that perfectly… wbriggs seemed to be the one "complaining about the lessons", but that's ok... it doesn't discourage me from continuing to critique anything he may wish to have critiqued.

Christine: "I usually even say that my comments are in ALL CAPS, but I forgot this time. I did not expect that missed detail to constitute a charge of sounding like an ass."

It's a simple and honest mistake... although, if you choose to critique in that manner, especially for any newbies, you should make sure to remember the "disclaimer"... but don't worry, unlike everyone else, I already apologized for you...

reazwoz: Don't worry... you at least still have me to critique your work in the future... my only requirements is that I find your writing at least somewhat interesting enough for me to want to help you work out the kinks (no offense to those I haven't critiqued... it's just a difference in taste).

"The wise are not wise because they make no mistakes. They are wise because they correct their mistakes as soon as they recognize them."
-OSC, "Xenocide"


Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
HSO
Member
Member # 2056

 - posted      Profile for HSO   Email HSO         Edit/Delete Post 
Gone on holiday for a few weeks and look at this! I'm utterly offended by the content of this topic.

Now I have to go off and offend someone to save my honorable status of Official Hatrack Offender. Thanks. Thanks a lot.


Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2