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Author Topic: The Threads That Bind - Scifi
rustafarianblackpolarbear
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Hamate finished his midnight snack and put his dishes in the sink. Someone else will take care of them, he thought to himself, feeling half asleep. Not feeling his normal insomniac self this morning, he decided to hit the hay. On the way across the Tokyo mansion, he heard the subtle sound of a squeaking door coming from General Chitahiro’s chamber. Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. No. There is no chance that I would not have been notified by now.

Considering the time and the fact that only the General and Hamate himself lived in this building whilst all the servants lived in separate ones, he felt intrigued enough to investigate. Hmm, I do feel kind of delirious. Maybe I should just leave it to someone else. No chance. This was the perfect opportunity to see Masters Chambers for the first time and probably the last.

It was a long walk to the south-eastern wing of the Imperial Mansion, but then Hamate spent a lot of time on his feet; most of it pacing up and down the house trying to work out ideas on the tip of his tongue....

i dont know how many lines this is gonna come out as but prob not 13 though it was in Word, sorry.


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wbriggs
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What genre, how many words, what do you want done (just these 13?)?

--

I have some logistical problems in it. Comments in ALL CAPS. The writing seems fine to me.

Hamate finished his midnight snack and put his dishes in the sink. Someone else will take care of them, he thought to himself, feeling half asleep. Not feeling his normal insomniac self this morning [I THOUGHT IT WAS MIDNIGHT!], he decided to hit the hay [AMERICAN EXPRESSION. OK, YOU'RE WRITING IN ENGLISH NOT JAPANESE, BUT MAYBE YOU COULD GIVE SOME PHRASES THAT REMIND US WE'RE IN JAPAN]. On the way across the Tokyo mansion, he heard the subtle sound of a squeaking door coming from General Chitahiro’s chamber. Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. [I WANT TO KNOW HAMATE'S RELATIONSHIP TO THE GENERAL. HE CALLS HIM "MASTER" BUT SEEMS MORE THAN A SERVANT.] No. There is no chance that I would not have been notified by now. [NOTIFIED OF WHAT?]

Considering the time and the fact that only the General and Hamate himself lived in this building whilst all the servants lived in separate ones, he felt intrigued enough to investigate. [EARLY HE WAS VERY SLEEPY. DID THIS WAKE HIM UP?] Hmm, I do feel kind of delirious. [DELIRIOUS, SLEEPY, AND INTRIGUED? TOO MUCH AT ONCE, UNLESS THERE'S AN EXPLANATION!] Maybe I should just leave it to someone else. No chance. This was the perfect opportunity to see Masters Chambers for the first time and probably the last. [WHY IS THIS?]

It was a long walk to the south-eastern wing of the Imperial Mansion [SHOULDN'T THE IMPERIAL MANSION HAVE THE EMPORER AND HIS FAMILY? BUT MAYBE YOU HAVE AN EXPLANATION LATER], but then Hamate spent a lot of time on his feet; most of it pacing up and down the house trying to work out ideas on the tip of his tongue...[.] [SOUNDS LIKE HAMATE IS A WRITER. SOME EDITORS DON'T LIKE WRITER STORIES; JUST SOMETHING TO KNOW]

See also the link below for a discussion about keeping secrets from the reader.
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/002021.html


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Meenie
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Hamate finished his midnight snack and put his dishes in the sink. Someone else will take care of them, he thought to himself, feeling half asleep. Not feeling his normal insomniac self this morning, he decided to hit the hay.

((Is this the beginning of your story? The first paragraph is filled with a lot of mundane things - a midnight snack, dirty dishes in the sink that he debates on washing then decides not to, feeling half asleep, deciding to "hit the hay" (very American saying, which is ok if Hamate turns out to have been raised in America, but that wouldn't seem to fit with him considering someone else his "master" perhaps? There's no real hook.))
((Just a note to WBriggs - after midnight is considered "morning" ))

On the way across the Tokyo mansion, he heard the subtle sound of a squeaking door coming from General Chitahiro’s chamber.

((He hears a "subtle sound of a squeaking door coming from General Chitahiro's chamber" yet further on we're told it's a LONG walk to the south-eastern wing to investigate. Wouldn't it have had to be more of a door slamming for him to hear it so far away? Surely it couldn't have been too subtle ))

Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. No. There is no chance that I would not have been notified by now.
Considering the time and the fact that only the General and Hamate himself lived in this building whilst all the servants lived in separate ones, he felt intrigued

((not sure if "intrigued" is the best word here. If I lived in a house with only one other person, whom I believed to be away, and heard the sound of a door opening or closing, I'd be making haste to investigate - in fact would be slightly alarmed.))

enough to investigate.

Hmm, I do feel kind of delirious. Maybe I should just leave it to someone else.

((1. why would he feel "delirious"? and
2. If he's the only other person in the house who else is going to investigate?))

No chance. This was the perfect opportunity to see Masters Chambers for the first time and probably the last.

((So I take it that he isn't normally allowed in the Master's Chambers.))

It was a long walk to the south-eastern wing of the Imperial Mansion, but then Hamate spent a lot of time on his feet; most of it pacing up and down the house trying to work out ideas on the tip of his tongue....

[This message has been edited by Meenie (edited June 07, 2005).]


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Survivor
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I had a hard time with "Masters Chambers".

On a different note, the interpenetration of English and Japanese is sufficiently advanced that you can use a few important Japanese terms which may not have exact English counterparts. There's no reason to go overboard, but a respectful affix or perhaps some references to the peculiarly Japanese style of interior and furnishing might suffice. You might consider italicizing any terms not easily found in an English dictionary, that will let you see at a glance whether you're going overboard, and it is a good signal to the reader that there is an important distinction in the Japanese term that wouldn't be easily captured in English.

Right now, the only real signposts you have to Japan are "Tokyo" and "Imperial Mansion". And they are nothing more than signposts, they don't communicate any essential flavor.


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Ezuma
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I agree with all of what these guys have said, but I have a very tiny adjustment to make to your novel.

I know it's the draft, and you're no way up to editing it yet, but have the thoughts in Italics, so it's easier to distinguish between what the Narrator is thinking, and what Hamate (or any other character for that matter) is thinking.


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M_LaVerne
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Tip of tongue...hit the hay...very really very pretty cliche.

Yup, need something to help us experience the character's thought...


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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First of all, let me clear up the fact that I didn’t know that "hit the hay" was an American expression. I use it all the time but then, I have probably watched a bit too much American television in my day. I’m an aussie by the way. I have a Japanese contact who can help me with things like names, expressions and grammar. So I'll clear that up afterwards. At the moment I just want to get into writing it because the idea has been running through my head for months now.

And also, about my revealing of details; that is definitely a problem, but I'm worried about having too big a first chapter because there is so much to the story (it's an event story based in approx. 2035, by the way). If you could offer some advice (and don't refer me to OSC's writing class – I’ve already read it; and I’m lending his 2 writing books to a friend) I would be very grateful.

This may seem a bit unlikely to you guys (not to me though because it almost happened to my country in WW2) but the case is in my story world Japan has conquered USA, China and Russia. Their population does not extend into these countries but they own the rail lines (flying magnet trains; there is not other motorised form of transport in the world) and it is on one of these that Hamate and Vernon Raid (an assassin who breaks in to kill the General on a night that he is out of town<he has no family, only Hamate who is adopted> ). \

They part and Hamate goes to Montreal where 2 other “threads” live and they head to London where eventually all 10 threads meet (since this is where they are going into space from) and have to take down the evil Japanese empire before eventually going to Mars. I hope that helps. I know the 13 lines is only for writing style critique but since you’re all wondering there you go.

Thanks for your help everyone.


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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Hamate and Vernon kill him on the train by the way. Sorry i forgot to put that in.
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Kolona
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I don't get a clear sense of mood, time period or place here. 'Midnight snack,' 'dishes in the sink,' 'hit the hay,' 'tip of his tongue' all seem to suggest a modern bent, yet 'Master' and 'chambers' suggest otherwise. Without some idea of character relationships, I don't know what I should be feeling for Hamate.

As someone pointed out, do you really need all the everyday stuff in these paragraphs? You could get some vital info in while keeping a comfortable word count by paring down the clutter (and this is only an example):

Shortly after midnight as he crossed through the Tokyo mansion, Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of his adoptive father, General Chitahiro. Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. I would have been notified. Since all the servants lived in separate buildings, he felt compelled to investigate, despite his sleepiness. Besides, this was the perfect opportunity to see Master's chambers for the first time -- and probably the last.

As a reader, I want to care about the character and get involved in the plot -- which sounds uniquely intriguing -- but phrases like "considering the time and the fact that" are more like info dump flags than cleverly dispensed background info.


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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thanks man. i see what u mean with not using irrelevant information. do you mind if i use that to try and start again? also, does anyone know of any good science fiction novels with long chapters and only a small ammount in total?
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Kolona
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Use away, but don't treat it like it's written in stone. Only you know where you're going with your story.

Short SF with long chapters? Offhand, I can't think of any, but chapter length is the writer's call. Whatever works for your work.


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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does this sum it up better?

Shortly after midnight as he crossed through the Tokyo mansion, in the still quiet of the early morning Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of his adoptive father, General Chitahiro. He was a small boy for his age of thirteen but what he lacked in size and strength, he made up for in courage and brilliance. Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. I would have been notified. Since all the servants lived in separate buildings, he felt compelled to investigate, despite his sleepiness. Besides, this was the perfect opportunity to see Master's chambers for the first time -- and probably the last.

The sound stopped but Hamate continued to follow it, well aware that it would either be the library or Masters bedroom. Was there someone else in the house? If he wanted to know he only had to go to the surveillance room, but he was not sure he could get in there either so he continued.

Passing around the last corner to separate the south-eastern wing from the rest of the house, Hamate noticed an open door up the hallway. A sudden liveliness came to him with the idea of this being Masters private library. But why was the door squeaking? Does the General not use it anymore? He approached, no longer interested in the intruder’s presence.

* * *
In General Chitahiro’s bedroom, the assassin was not surprised to find not there, just disappointed. Ever the optimist, instead of ruing in a sense of stupidity and failure, he had already planned his next move. He was well aware of the small Japanese boy in the next room and had a fair guess of who he might be.


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Survivor
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Stick with posting the first thirteen.

Also, avoid the dreaded unreferenced pronoun, external description of the POV character, confusing sentance structure, and all other evil things.


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wbriggs
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I think I'd start either with seeing the assassin, or sneaking into the private library. If you want to start here at all.

I think you were putting in a lot of explanation because people said they were confused, but it feels like I'm trying to read a story and it keeps getting stopped by information dumps. I know you need some, but not so much I think. Sensory information also will ground me in the story.

ADDITIONS, and [deletions].
--

Shortly after midnight [as he crossed through the Tokyo mansion, in the still quiet of the early morning] Hamate heard [the sound of] a squeaking door. IT SEEMED TO BE coming from the chambers of his adoptive father, General Chitahiro. [He was a small boy for his age of thirteen but what he lacked in size and strength, he made up for in courage and brilliance. Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. I would have been notified. Since all the servants lived in separate buildings, he felt compelled to investigate, despite his sleepiness. Besides, this was the perfect opportunity to see Master's chambers for the first time -- and probably the last.]

[WHO'S "MASTER"? WE KNOW 2 REFERENCES TO HIS DAD: FATHER AND GENERAL CHITAHIRO. IF HE REALLY CALLS HIM MASTER, TELL US. AND IGNORE MY ADVICE AS NEEDED!]

[OK, I GUESS I DO NEED TO KNOW THAT HE'S IN A CORRIDOR AND THAT HE HAS SOME REASON FOR BEING UP.]

[The sound stopped but Hamate continued to follow it, well aware that it would either be the library or Masters bedroom. Was there someone else in the house? If he wanted to know he only had to go to the surveillance room, but he was not sure he could get in there either so he continued.]


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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first of all, i dont know what the big deal is about the General.Hes not that important and hes definitely not first 13 lines material. also, i cant start witht he assassin because 1. hamate is the main character, and 2. the assassin is very mysterious and is in a costume and uses a different name at this point in the story anyway. ill be back in a second to whinge a bit more

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Kolona
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quote:
Shortly after midnight as he crossed through the Tokyo mansion, in the still quiet of the early morning Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of his adoptive father, General Chitahiro. He was a small boy for his age of thirteen but what he lacked in size and strength, he made up for in courage and brilliance.

You're doing it again, rustafarianblackpolarbear. <written in a friendly teasing way> You've added redundant wordage: 'midnight' and 'early morning;' 'still' and 'quiet;' and 'for thirteen' is sufficient instead of 'for the age of thirteen.' Unless you're going for fully omniscient POV, that whole second sentence is outside of Hamate's POV, which distances the reader from him.

If the sound stopped, Hamate couldn't exactly continue to follow it; maybe he simply continued forward or something.

Speaking for myself, I am curious about the General and his relationship with Hamate. It seems a distant sort of relationship, and that is a tad intriguing. If it's not a giant issue, maybe a little info to quell curiosity would be in order -- but very little, and worked into the text, not as an info block -- or leave off the part about not seeing the Master's chambers before or ever again.


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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As he crossed through his father’s Tokyo mansion, in the still of the early morning Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of the man who had long since adopted him from the orphanage in Southern Akita because they had noticed his being more thread-like than the scientists had first assumed. Not that that mattered. The most powerful man in the world could surely fix loose thread he saw fit to.
Surely Master isn’t back early, thought Hamate. I would have been notified. Since all the servants lived in separate buildings, he felt compelled to investigate, despite his sleepiness. Besides, this was the perfect opportunity to see Master's chambers for the first time -- and probably the last.
The sound stopped but Hamate continued to the southern wing of the building. Was there someone else in the house? If he wanted to know he only had to go to the surveillance room, but he was not sure he was allowed in there either, taught long ago not to push his luck, so he continued.
When he got there he noticed an open door up the hallway. A sudden liveliness came to him with the idea of this being Masters private library. But why was the door squeaking? Does he not use it anymore? He went inside.

Note from the Administrator:

If you have to go to 14 lines to finish a sentence, that's one thing, but don't go into another section just because you think you can get away with it.

!3 lines means the first page of a story in manuscript format. That's around 140 words at the most, or about 780 characters.

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited June 14, 2005).]


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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thanks for that ms. dalton-woodbury...

in my experience, an author does not neccessarily have to use italics,quotation marks or even <said charlie>'s, to differentiate thoughts and qoutes from descriptive writng. Tim Winton doesn't use them and as a new writer I would prefer not to use them. Instead, from now on I am going to use a new line for thoughts and quotes. You may not have seen it before but I really don't like <i/>'s<i/>, etc and my personal opinion is that the narrator telling the story, in 3rd person, is really <i/>telling<i/> the story then rather than telling you what the pov character thinks. As for feeling close to the characters, that really comes in what they manage to achieve and their personality and can also be achieved through a personalised description of the character rather than the character's own views of the worldbeing portrayed.
That being said, I'll be back soon with a rewrite of my threads story so please tell me what you think.


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rustafarianblackpolarbear
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As he crossed through his father’s Tokyo mansion, in the still of the early morning Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of the man who had long since adopted him from the orphanage in Southern Akita. They had noticed his being more thread-like than the scientists had first assessed. Not that that mattered. The most powerful man in the world can do what he wants, especially when it involves a horrible little orphan and loose thread in this almost perfect world.
Surely Master isn’t back early. No, I would have been notified.
Since all the servants lived in separate buildings, he felt compelled to investigate, despite his sleepiness. The sound stopped but Hamate continued to the southern wing of the building.
Is there someone else in the house?
If he wanted to know he only had to go to the surveillance room, but he was not sure he was allowed in there either, taught long ago not to push his luck, so he continued.
When he got there he noticed an open door up the hallway. A sudden liveliness came to him with the idea of this being Masters private library.

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Ahavah
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Rusta, (love your name, BTW)

First I have to say that I agree that you need some way to differentiate character thoughts. Otherwise, it drags me out of the story. As in, "What? Where did this come from?" Italics are the usual method here. If you prefer just including it in a different line, it would be much easier to follow if you had some paragraph breaks. (Even then, it jars me, but then I've never read any of Tim Winton's work.) Ie:

...especially when it involves a horrible little orphan and loose thread in this almost perfect world.

Surely Master isn’t back early. No, I would have been notified.

Since all the servants lived in separate buildings,...
___________________________-
That said, I must be honest and admit that you lost me at the very first sentence. I continued reading so that I could comment for you, but otherwise I very likely would have put the book down. Consider:

quote:
As he crossed through his father’s Tokyo mansion, in the still of the early morning Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of the man who had long since adopted him from the orphanage in Southern Akita.

The hook is lost in an astounding amount of verbiage AND info dumping. From your earlier posts I realize that Hamate hears something and is wondering whether to investigate. That is not clear in the rewrite at all.

The thread thing is brought up too early, I think. It's more background info that doesn't make the present situation clear. So now I'm left wondering about two things: what is the present situation? And what is being thread-like?

quote:
The most powerful man in the world can do what he wants, especially when it involves a horrible little orphan and loose thread in this almost perfect world.

quote:
If he wanted to know he only had to go to the surveillance room, but he was not sure he was allowed in there either, taught long ago not to push his luck, so he continued.

Again, I think it's important to be clear and concise with every sentence.

You end with a 'sudden liveliness' about him. I would rather you describe the jump in his step, the coy smile at the thought of entering Master's private library. But now it seems that he is more intent on exploring the forbidden than in finding out if someone has broken in. I think it's important to stick with the scene you started with and let us see how that moves. You could drop in more hints about backstory and such as you go along, but the middle of a tense (and possibly dangerous?) scene isn't really the place to go into orphanages and scientists and horrible little orphans.


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kkmmaacc
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It sounds like an interesting story, but I agree with a number of the preceding posts. In the first version, I think the aim was to whet people's appetites by making reference to things that hadn't been revealed yet -- tiny mysteries that would be solved by reading further. This may seem like a good strategy for “hooking” the reader. The only problem is that this strategy is extremely difficult to use -- it often comes of as irritating rather than beguiling. The problem is that the reader has to carry the unanswered questions in his/her head, while simultaneously reading your story. That puts a heavy cognitive load on the reader. Heavy cognitive loads are not fun, hence the book is put down. In the second (and subsequent) versions, it seems like the opposite extreme is used -- too much information is presented early on, when its rightful place would be later in the story. I guess it is a balancing act between presenting too much and too little.

For example, if the opening makes reference to both Hamate and the General, it should mention (but not explain in detail) what their relationship is. Just stating that the General is his father is enough. Another example: If Hamate acts like he is in extreme awe of the general (i.e., calling him master, can’t go in his rooms) there should be some explanation. But we don’t necessarily need to know that the General is “the most powerful man in the world” (which just opens up more questions), or anything about his real-world status. We just need to know the “proximal” answer – the one that clarifies that sentence or paragraph – not the “ultimate” answer that you will reveal later in the story. For example, right now all we need to know is that Hamate is in awe because the General doesn’t fully treat Hamate like a son, that he is a very private person, or whatever.

Here’s a third example of the same problem but in reverse: In editing out all the description of the late night snack, the story now poses another unanswered question – why is he walking around in the wee hours of the morning? In the first version, there was too much detail – it seemed like the snack was a major story element. Without it there at all, it is too little information. Instead of an extended description of the snack, a brief mention is all that’s needed. Here’s a suggested rewrite of the first sentence, broken into two sentences. (Please forgive my presumption – I’m not saying this is good, I’m just giving an example of what I, personally, would find to be enough information, while trying to minimally change your words.)

-----
As Hamate returned to his room after a midnight snack, he heard the sound of a squeaking door. It seemed to come from the south wing of the Tokyo mansion, which housed his aloof adoptive father’s private rooms.
-----

Another unanswered question, in my mind, has to do with the surveillance room. We are told that Hamate feels compelled to investigate, since he’s supposed to be the only person in the building. But then we are told there is a surveillance room. Is it unmanned? Why would they run a surveillance room in such an inefficient manner? Maybe it is for the General’s private use, but that is speculation. Maybe it is manned by remote control, but then why does Hamate feel *compelled* to investigate – just let the surveillance team handle it. And wouldn’t Hamate’s incursion into the private study be recorded by the surveillance equipment? Or doesn’t it record? Again, that seems like a very inefficient surveillance room. Now, I think you’ll see that this is too much to keep in your brain while reading a story. I think the aim may have been to hook the reader – “Wow! There’s a surveillance room – I wonder what that’s about, and I’m going to read more to find out!” But it just overloads the reader’s brain. I’ll assume that the surveillance room is a facility that the General uses when he is home, that it is not remotely monitored, and does not actually record. In that case, you could say something like this:

-----
Since all the servants lived in separate buildings, Hamate felt compelled to investigate. Is there someone else in the house? The sound stopped but Hamate continued toward the southern wing. He could’ve gone to the General’s surveillance room instead, but Hamate suspected his father would not suffer him to fiddle with his precious equipment, even under these circumstances.
-----

Well, that’s just my two cents. I hope my impressions might be helpful to you. Best of luck,

K.


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Kolona
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quote:
As he crossed through his father’s Tokyo mansion, in the still of the early morning Hamate heard the sound of a squeaking door coming from the chambers of the man who had long since adopted him from the orphanage in Southern Akita because they had noticed his being more thread-like than the scientists had first assumed.

Whoa. Rasta. Read that sentence aloud. Even in my mind I had to take several breaths to get through it. I love the fact that you're eager to get this right, but consider HSO's (?) advice in another F&F thread: Don't rush to correct after a crit. Let it brew in the subconscious of your creative mind for a while. Try different configurations and read them aloud. Sometimes our real ears hear things differently than our mind's ears.

For your opening, decide what's important to that particular scene. If the General isn't important, don't belabor him. Tiny bits woven into the scene would be enough. "Adoptive father" teamed with Hamate suspecting, for instance, borrowing on what kkmmaacc wrote, that the Master "would not suffer him to fiddle with his precious equipment, even under these circumstances" would give a hint that things were not rosy between them. (I've added talics only to link the words that would contribute to that hint.)

Remember, you'll get conflicting advice. It's up to you to sift through it and utilize the best for your story.


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