posted
Ok I've undertaken this rather large project. The idea is to create a collection of stories that all relate to the same world but focus on the tales of different gods and goddesses like roman or norse mythology. Of course that's where I want the similarities to end. The idea is to tell the stories from the gods' point of view making them seem as human as possible (because that's how I want them to be). Anyway here's my first 13. This is my first time posting a story here so I'd appreciate any comments I could get thanks in advance.
BTW - This is a novel so trying to be very descriptive as opposed to a short story where I would want to be more to the point.
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Summer never felt so good to Layn. He’d often left the Vesarian Temple to come down to the mortal realm and bask in the sun, but for some reason today felt better than usual. The field that he stood in was in a valley that was surrounded on all sides by a dark and penetrating forest. Through the middle of the valley ran a shallow stream that stretched from one edge of the forest to the other. This was a serene place that almost no one knew about and fewer would take the time to come to. This was Layn’s place. If he were ever to become an elder and allowed to choose a Realm of Solitude he would most certainly choose this valley.
As Layn walked along the stream he decided to introduce some new life into the world. With a simple wave of his hand a new creature was created which Layn dubbed, “a barlow”.
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Again, any suggestions or anything of the sort would be great.
posted
You say you're wanting to tell this from the god's POV, but you're not. This is all from an external POV which is why it feels wrong.
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posted
I guess I was unclear when I said that it was explained for the God's point of view. I want it to be third person omniscient (sp?). When I said god's point of view I meant that it was told more about what the gods believed about what they were doing as opposed to what humans thought about what the gods were doing, as is the case in most mythology. Another way of putting would be to say that I'm trying to make the readers relationship with the gods seem more personal that traditional mythology where the gods are characterized as these all-powerful beings who could not possibly be understood by human minds. I hope that clears things up, and sorry for the confusion on the POV thing. I didn't explain myself very well.
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posted
The problem with omniscient is that you need to make it very clear from the beginning that this is not 3rd-person-limited, because otherwise people are going to think you have a POV problem.
Here the first two sentences strongly imply we are in Layn's POV. The rest of it comes as a violation of that POV. Consider rewriting the beginning so that it is clear what POV you chose. You don't have much time to establish it.
posted
Even for a novel, this is too far outside of anyone's emotions for the reader to care. If I picked this up in a bookstore, I'd put it back down after the first page.
On the first page you need to establish your PoV character and why he is doing what he is doing at that moment. We need to start to feel for the character.
A rarely used or appreciated alternative would be to spend the first paragraph establishing the setting. This is acceptable in novel length works, but mostly we want to get right to the characters and the action.
Your second sentence needs a rewrite. It's all over the place on subject and action. Don't abbreviate 'he had' unless you are trying for an extremely casual relationship with the reader which is unlikely when talking gods.
Why is there a temple in the immortal realm? Do your gods really worship themselves so deeply that their homes are temples?
If a god creates a creature with a wave of his hand. Did he determine that the creature would be two legged, reproduce through live birth, eat vegetables but prefer sugar cane, have three toes and two thumbs, all in an instant. When seeing from a gods PoV all of these things would be important to know because the god would know them. Even if the summary read, he instantly determined the details of the creature and waved his hand, it still gives the impression that the god is creating it and not invoking a higher power to do the gritty work. At the least, change "a new creature was created" to "he created a new creature."
Why did he create a creature, on a whim? Did he create only one?
How is the creature creation important to the story or the character? Not that this has to be answered in the first 13, but it has to be answered.
Four of your first six senteces use "was" or "were". (5 of the first 8)
posted
I'm not really sure what you mean about the POV problem Silver. The problem is the story starts out with Layn but it doesn't stay with him. I'm going to have several storylines using several different gods as the focus at different times. The idea is to switch from chapter to chapter between about 3 gods and in each chapter one of them is the focal point with whom the POV should be 3rd person omniscient. I can see how the first two imply that we are in Layn's POV but I'm not sure what to do to change them. Any suggestions?
Pantros - For the casual relationships with the gods. That's exactly what I'm going for. I want the reader to feel like he knows the god first hand and that they honestly aren't that different of people (it's kind of the premise for the whole story). As for the questions about temples and immortal realm, I purposely wanted to leave that open so the reader has something to understand later on. Do you think that's a bad idea?
For the details of the creation of the creature, It's all explained in lines 14 and on so all those questions are answered I just couldn't fit it in my first 13.
And I'm currently telling the story in past tense so that's the reason for all the "was" and "were". Is this a bad idea as well?
[This message has been edited by Matt (edited December 09, 2005).]
posted
I didn't notice POV problems, but maybe I'm not observant. I do notice that we haven't gotten a reason to read further. Usually this takes the form of some conflict, a struggle on the part of MC. What's Layn struggling for? At this point, nothing, so I don't see a reason to read.
So, I ask: what *will* Layn be struggling for? Not a rhetorical question; I really want the answer.
posted
Well I start the story off with this sort of uneventful page or two (except for the creation of the barlows) to kind of set up the idea what a of particular god might be capable of. I think this will keep the reader from being confused later on the story.
After about a page or two of that there is a flash back to the murder of Layn's father at the hands of an evil god, named Malum. The story has to do with Layn hunting down Malum, against the wishes of the council while at the same time a war between the good gods (Glorion) and the evil gods (Ashen) starts taking place. By the end of the first chapter Layn has been attacked, in the field he's standing in,, and the reader has also learned that the Glorion Gods are in an uproar over something (the war but only the Council knows about it at this point). In the second chapter the war is on and Layn has become somewhat of a rogue hero by seeking vengeance on Malum alone as opposed to assisting the Glorion Gods which is what he is obligated to do.
[This message has been edited by Matt (edited December 09, 2005).]
posted
The was and were issue isnt the debate over which to use; its pointing out that you are repeatedly using the same word. Mix it up, give some other verbs a chance.
posted
The great god Layn, god of [insert relevant capabilities here], went a-hunting across the earth for Malum, the evil god of [whatever]. The other gods were not happy [for some reason]. But Layn needed to do this for [whatever reason].
[Then we set a particular time and place and show the action.]
That would be my recommendation. OK, my paragraph there isn't great, but then it's not my story---you know what would hook us. Point is: hook us. Show us why we would want to read.
posted
I see what you're saying but the only problem I have with starting the story like that, is that if the reader doesn't get a full sense for why Layn is hunting Malum and what kind person he really is then it will make the gods seem too godlike (I know that sounds stupid). The goal I'm after is to make the gods seem like humans with extraordinary abilities. I want the reader to see that Layn is a very quite and ponderous person by nature and that only something like the murder of his father wearing away at him for hundreds of years will cause him to unleash this beast within that he truly has.
It's a character I think most people can relate to but not if they look at him like a god. They have to look at him like a human or else the relation does work like I want. Granted this means (on the version I currently have) that I can't just jump right into the story. I feel like I have to give some background and make the reader feel like this is a being who would normally be very reserved, and the opening scene in the field does that (in my opinion). The hook does not come until the end of chapter 1. Should I have posted that instead of the first 13? I'm aware that the first page isn't this action packed, grab the reader and slap them in the face, sort of start but it's what I feel (as of right now) needs to happen. Any suggestions on how to make the reader truly understand that this character is very calm and collected 99% of the time and still have a hooky first page would be welcome, I'm just not sure the two ideas can coexist.
posted
An omniscient POV is not picking a character, writing an entire scene in his POV, then switching to another character for the next scene. That's rotating third-person limited. Omniscient means the narrator knows the thoughts of every character on-scene. Since your god is alone, getting this across is hard.
I'd rather not venture into rewriting it from omniscient, since all I know is theory. One thing that might work is establishing a clear narrator's voice (as opposed to a "POV" voice) ie someone who is telling the story as oppposed to giving us someone's thoughts. Or a more distant narrative might work.
Like
quote:Among the younger gods, Layn alone had taken the habit of leaving the Vesarian Temple to come down to the mortal realm--most definitely an unfashionable habit for a god. Layn did not care. Summer had never felt so good to him.
Unbeknownst to him, other gods whispered beyond his back, whispered that he was too cocky, and would soon fall.
This may not at all be in the spirit of your story, and it's just an example: the point is - show us that you know the thoughts of someone else than Layn, and fast - get a clear voice to hint that you're not transcribing Layn's thoughts.
My two cents.
(edited because of typos and formatting problems).
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited December 09, 2005).]
quote:I'm aware that the first page isn't this action packed, grab the reader and slap them in the face, sort of start...
That doesn't make a good start anymore than a boring, expository passage does. The point of the beginning is not to slap someone in the face, it's to make them interested. You can do that without blowing things up and spilling people's guts, but you can't do it with exposition.
quote:Well I start the story off with this sort of uneventful page or two (except for the creation of the barlows) to kind of set up the idea what a of particular god might be capable of. I think this will keep the reader from being confused later on the story.
No, what it will do is keep the reader from reading the rest of your book. It's a rare reader who is patient enough to sit around for a few pages waiting for the author to finally start the book. You don't have that leisure. Unless readers can care about the character first, they won't care that he likes to lay around in fields and make creatures. Just start the story where the story starts.
It sounds like you're trying to force the truths of your fictional universe on the reader up front and expect them to believe it. That's not how it works. You have to earn a reader's trust. Get into the story and show these things along the way, and allow the readers to decide for themselves.
[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited December 09, 2005).]
posted
Honestly, it sounds to me like you do want to use Third Person Limited. The fact that you switch to other characters won't actually make this Third Person Omniscient, since such switching is allowed in Third Person Limited. To be Omniscient, it would offer details such as other gods rumor mongering behind his back, and other events of which he has no awareness (even for a god.)
Because you say you want to establish these characters as human-like, I think Third Person Limited works best. I don't want to tell you how to write your story, but this is my suggestion. With this POV, you're in his head, seeing his thoughts, seeing things the way he sees them. You get to know him through his thoughts. Then, the reader can see that he is human-like.
If it's limited, he doesn't create a new life form, because he doesn't see it that way. To him, it's a new plaything, a new distraction.
To illustrate, if a girl walks into a room to meet to brothers, and one sees her as beautiful and the other as plain, how do you describe her in the text? The answer depends on which brother is the POV character.
"This was a serene place that almost no one knew about and fewer would take the time to come to." If this were Third Person Limited, these wouldn't be the thoughts he was thinking. What is he thinking as he enters this place? What's going through his head? How does he feel? You could say something like, "He felt calm here. He felt like he could truly breathe here. He felt alone, at last." (Just as an example.)
Concerning conflict, I feel strongly that conflict is always a strong hook that draws a reader into the story, motivates them to read a little more. In a novel, such as this, you don't need it in the first thirteen lines, but it wouldn't hurt. I bring this up because I think you have an excellent opportunity. He's alone in the place that is HIS place, and he can think. It doesn't have to be in this thirteen, but let him think a little about revenge, dark thoughts. Maybe let the Marlow he creates be a reflection of his emotions right now (perhaps, make it resemble this evil god, but in a pathetic mewling form.)
By the way, I think temple can be used as a dwelling place for deity. It's not as common a usage, but I think it is still usable.
quote:I see what you're saying but the only problem I have with starting the story like that, is that if the reader doesn't get a full sense for why Layn is hunting Malum and what kind person he really is then it will make the gods seem too godlike...
Point of clarification: I'm not recommending that the reader NOT get a full sense of what Layn is like---exactly the opposite. And the way to make that happen is to tell us, up front. IMJ.
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