Here goes nothing. I've worked on this far too long, and I need to wrap it up and call it overdone. This is my first try at submitting something here, so I'm a little trepidacious. (I lack confidence.)
***
Braced for her last day alive, Hanna pulled the heavy bedchamber door open. She gasped, as she suddenly faced too many people. Expecting only the kindly faces of her blind servants, she also found General Koheth and her mother. She was naked.
Her mother knew about the decision, Hanna could tell. Good. She had hoped to talk to her mother. She looked down on General Koheth. What was he doing her? How dare he be here, especially before her bathing and dressing rituals?
Koheth kept his head bowed and his eyes clamped shut. "Holiness," he greeted. "I've come to apologize. We were unable to secure an escape route for you, during the night. The Haan still surround the city."
***
Just to answer a couple questions in advance. Yes, it's important for her to be naked. It's integral to the story, actually. (No sex is described in the story, though some is implied towards the end.)
I'm wondering if 'too many people' would be better as simple 'more people than she expected' or something similar.
Readers would be nice, though I'm nervous enough just posting this much. I did have it up on critters.org about a year ago; this is a re-write.
posted
I think it has a nice slow, smooth entrance. I like it. I can understand why she is naked, because of her bathing rituals, that is something that could be explained later in the story I presume.
quote:I'm wondering if 'too many people' would be better as simple 'more people than she expected' or something similar.
"too many people" is more of a rookies wording, don't worry I write like that still I agree with your 'more people than she expected' quote. But i think:
"She gasped, at the many people who had come to her door."
would be a little more appropiate. Hit me if I'm wrong about it.
posted
I don't know things she knows: specifically, what's going on here. Please: tell us up front! It doesn't create suspense to keep this from us; just confusion.
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posted
I know how you feel about posting for the first time!
I liked it. Very much. The writing is not overbearing, you don't have an excess of any one thing (verbs, adjectives, etc.) which is good. The story starts with action of a kind, which is great. I'm left with a hook that will most definately make me turn the page and find out what's going on. Very nice.
That said, I want to point out a few things too.
quote:Braced for her last day alive
To me, this felt very awkward. Like you were trying to tell the readers, as opposed to flowing with the story. After reading the whole 13, I actually think it would be fine for you to leave this off and let us find out as the story progresses. You could start at "Hanna pulled..."
quote:I'm wondering if 'too many people' would be better as simple 'more people than she expected' or something similar.
Actually, you don't need either. The fact that there are more people than she expected is implied very clearly in the following sentence. If you just had "She gasped." it would be a great reaction shot, and short sentences can convey a certain tone (ie, she's startled).
quote:...she also found General Koheth and her mother. She was naked.
I don't know the official grammar rules, but the 'she was naked' technically refers to 'her mother' here. I figured that's not what you meant. One idea (that you certainly don't have to use) is that you could combine it with the gasping. Something along the lines of "She gasped, covering her nakedness." That's a bad example, but it's an idea.
I don't have any problems with the second and third paragraph. I think they're great just as they are.
I did have one question - from the opening image, I thought Hanna was outside the room, and then she opening the door and found people waiting for her in the room. Is it the other way around? If other people didn't have the same impression, then chalk my reaction up to 'one dumb reader' and leave it as is.
Nice job. If you need readers, let me know - the only catch is that I can't take anything for about 2 weeks. Then I'm free.
posted
wbriggs, honestly, I'm not sure what you think is being held back. She doesn't know any more about what is going on than the reader, and I feel that is expressed in her thoughts. There is a lot of backstory with what the general tells her, and that is covered as quickly as possible, without being an information dump, as the story progresses. Could you be a little more clear about what you think she knows that the reader doesn't?
Sojoyful, thank you for the feedback. I see exactly what you mean about 'braced for her..." In fact, that and 'she was naked' were very recent changes just before posting. I've been trying to find a smooth way to say what I want to say in that opening, but still make it work.
I was hoping that the idea of it being her last day alive, in her eyes, would be part of the hook. Now, I'm starting to feel there are more hooks there than I might need. That can definately be revealed as a natural part of the story.
I think you're right about just shortening it to 'she gasped'. That feels right.
She actually is inside her room coming out. I'll try to clarify that. An extra word or two could clear that up. Thanks for mentioning it. Do I need to establish more setting, beyond just her bedchamber door and whatever that implies?
posted
I think what Will means is that there are several instant questions that come to mind. You say it's her last day alive, but then you start telling us about who's standing at her door. We don't know why those people are all at the door. We don't know why she's going to need a bath. We don't know who the Haan are. It's not that a question at this point is bad (that's your hook, after all) but too many can just be a distraction. Bring things out slowly, one by one. She's naked in her room. She's afraid. It's her last day alive. Now tell why before you do anything else. Otherwise it's holding back information. She knows why it's her last day. Therefore the reader needs to know.
I think you're right about just having too many hooks. I like your writing. You should have no problem pulling us along with you. Just don't dangle too much in front of us at once.
Having said all that, I'd be happy to read more if you need it.
-I liked starting with "Braced for her last day alive...". It tells me something that if I'd suddenly found out later, I'd feel cheated. I can easily imagine taking a deep breath and bracing my shoulders before going out into the world. It tells me that she is willing to die, that she is a proud person, and I want to know more. To me, this is the hook.
-Too many people implies more than expected, not the wrong people. So yeah, I'd change it.
posted
"It tells me that she is willing to die, that she is a proud person...." That is exactly the sense I wanted, Aperion, which makes the question of whether to keep it or not all the more difficult.
I don't want to ignore that thought, because it's foremost in her mind when she opens the door. However, trying to explain the reason would take more than the thirteen lines all by itself. (The reason is hinted at in the 14th line, though.)
I considered replacing 'her last day alive' with what she is actually planning to do, but I feel that would open up just as many questions.
Obviously, I don't want to give out more detail. I want the first 13 to stand on their own without explanation.
Do I maybe need to slow down the introduction with a little more introspective commentary, thus letting the 'last day alive' be the hook? I worry that too much information in the first thirteen can become an information dump. However, that is more like what my original draft was like, anyway.
posted
Personally, I think more introspection would hurt your opening.
quote:...but I feel that would open up just as many questions.
Well, questions aren't necessarily bad. It depends. There is a difference between the questions of an intrigued reader and the questions of a confused reader. The former are, in fact, what a hook tries to achieve.
posted
If you're not going to tell why it's her last day alive, then I think fairly you just can't say that.
This is a lesson I'm learning right now. I've gotten two stories passed over by good editors because I did this. They said my writing was good and the story was great, but the aforementioned teasing was a problem. I needed to explain. Right away. Not dump, just small hints at where we're going. You should be able to do it in one or two sentences. It's the true art of the perfect short story, I think. And something I'm still struggling with myself.
That's my advice, anyway. But you need to do what feels right for your story.
posted
Okay, so I wouldn't want to be dragged through several paragraphs of her preparing to die and not be let in on why she's planning to sacrifice herself. But I don't need it in the first 13. Maybe in the conversation with her mother, who I imagine isn't too thrilled with her doing this--though maybe she's proud of her daughter, I don't know. The point is, that would be a natural place to have the MC think about why she's doing this.
To me, the line about her last day alive sets the overall theme of the piece. I don't need the whole situation explained right off. The immediate conflict is why the general and her mother is there. More info about the theme should be given as this immediate conflict is resolved, but I can't tell how you handle that from these lines alone.
posted
What pixydust said (about what I thought the author is holding back). Also I liked "Braced for her last day alive," because it tells me up front a reason that I want to read.
I'm going to post something about info dumps in Open Discussions.
It's in the Delivering info thread.
[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited December 02, 2005).]
posted
Thank you, wbriggs. What Pixydust said does make a lot of sense to me, now. Right now, I'm looking at clarifying that statement without going into an infordump. Part of that is deciding on how much I need to release in the first thirteen, beyond she feels it's her last day alive. So, I'll look forward to your post on infodumps.
When I wrote the intro, I felt it was important to get the part about the Haan surrounding the city into the first 13. (I think I wanted as many hooks as possible in there.) Now, I'm starting to see that the threat of it being her last day alive is probably enough hook. That should give me enough breathing room to work with the death thing.
I hope to have a new version of the first 13 up soon. For those who said they'd like to read, I'll send it out as soon as I get the first 13 squared away (I'm picky like that.)
posted
I might regret this, but I worked on the first thirteen while medicated.
Her death is foremost on her thoughts, so I wanted that in the first thirteen. It's also critical to the story.
I tried to show her bracing for her last day alive, rather than telling it. This meant that the dialogue got pushed out of the first thirteen, but it stille exists.
Concerning the last sentance of the second paragraph. Can I use a pronoun there, or would 'she' refer to her mother?
I added a line to explain a little of what is going on after her death is mentioned. "She had decided..." Do I need to keep that or can it go? It's about as much as I think I can explain in the first thirteen.
I'm also worried that the first paragraph might be a bit large, and might work as two paragraphs.
---
Hanna paused before exiting her bedchamber. How does one prepare for their last day alive? She had decided to turn herself over to the enemy surrounding the city. Her stomach felt sick, tight and knotted. There was no sense in delaying it. Get it over. Straightening her back and shoulders, she pulled the heavy bedchamber door open and gasped. Expecting only the kindly faces of her blind servants, she also found General Koheth and her mother. Hanna suddenly felt very aware of her nakedness. Tiny goose bumps covered her skin.
Her mother knew about the decision, Hanna could tell. Good. She had hoped to talk to her mother. She looked down on Koheth, who knelt with his eyes clamped shut. What was he doing here? How dare he invade her private chambers before her bathing and dressing rituals?
---
I'm feeling brave, so tear it up, folks. I don't want a good introduction, I want one that rocks.
(P.S. I have the page set to one inch margins and 12-point courier, making this thirteen lines plus two words. It's my understanding that a one or two extra words is acceptable, if they finish a sentance. I hope that is correct.)
posted
I still don't know what's happening. What is she afraid of? What's going to happen to her (in her expectation)? Why is she letting it happen? At this point, these aren't rhetorical questions: I'm asking you to lay it all out for us, right now. Then I will have suggestions about how to improve your introduction.
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posted
I apologize for my newness. Do you mean lay it out within the first thirteen lines? Or do you mean lay it out, as in a synopsis of these those plot points?
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posted
In my opinion, this isn't really that different from what you had before. It is the same info, just worded differently.
I think this is starting too late. How about beginning this the night before? You could still start out with some conflict as you have done here. Then we (the reader) would know why she is in this predicament. She knows what is going on, but we do not. There isn't any reason to keep that info from the reader. I realize that this only thirteen lines, but your MC is talking like we already should understand what is going on, and we don't.
My sugeestion: Start Earlier. This isn't the beginning of your story. This could be later in the first chapter, or the beginning of the second, but it doesn't feel like the begining to me.
posted
Chapters? I suppose if I had the luxury of chapters, I might have more room to do as you suggest. This isn't a novel, though. Her decision has been a slow process over the last two months. The story isn't about the decision, though it covers the motivation behind the decision since it is something of an ongoing decision, even still. The story is about what comes as a result of the decision, and the changes to the character that come from those results.
Yes, there is enough material that it could become a novel. (I could also write much more about what happens after the story, if I wanted it to be a novel. I don't.)
###
Hanna was in her bedchambers. She was the Avatar, the literal house and vessel of the spirit of Kal'vesh, the goddess of the sun, light and fire-- the only goddess her people worshiped. The sacred writings said anyway who saw or touched the Avatar's flesh would be burned in the fires of the goddess, except for the previous Avatar, her mother. Before she could go out among other mortals, she had to go through complex bathing and dressing rituals, assisted by blind servants.
Today, she was probably going to die because she had decided to give in to the demands of the enemy, the Haan, who surrounded her city. The two countries had been peaceful neighbors for decades. She didn't know why they demanded she go out to them alone. General Koheth, who led the army, had started the war....
###
As I suspected, I can't even get all the relevant information to fit into thirteen lines in info-dump form. All of those details are important to the story and the opening scene, including the bathing and dressing part.
I guess I have to dump the story and move on to something else until I'm ready to write a novel. I'm just not going to write one right now, so it'll have to wait. I really want to practice with some short stories before I tackle that.
I don't think I can get enough information into the first thirteen lines to make it work. How do I get all of those questions answered without making it an information dump, such as the one above. Sure, one or two of those details could be dropped, but at most I'd trim one or two lines and make it all just barely fit into thirteen lines.
I always thought this was a good story, if I could only make it work, which is why I've been working on it for so long. I see now that it's just too much.
posted
Agh--don't start earlier! This is where the action begins. We get action, and we get explanation. Where as the night before, we get... sitting around... and explanation.
Overall I like the re-write. Now I know why she's dying, which is good to get out and open. (Although it occurs to me that most enemies wouldn't immediately kill their enemy's leader if they surrendered. Maybe take them back to a central city and have a to-do about it, Roman style, or something.) I liked the previous use of "braced" as opposed to "paused." It comes off stronger. Also, I liked the blunt "She was naked." Gives the reader an immediate gut reaction--which Hanna also had in that moment.
EDIT: You posted at the same time.
[This message has been edited by apeiron (edited December 09, 2005).]
posted
I'm not saying that all that specific info get shoved into the first thirteen, that wouldn't be very smart. What I am trying to convey is this: If you were to put this in a timeline, the events as you have started to tell us do not begin where the actual story does(my opinion). From what you have now provided me in your info dump, I can see more of what is supposed to be happening. Just start where the conflict starts, which in my opinion is when the normally peaceful Haan start making their demands or surround the city. That is the life changing moment that begins the story, not when she wakes up the morning after.
OK, so it is a short story, forgive me, I appologize. But that is all the more reason to start this in the correct place and give a clear, colorful and concise telling of the events from the moment that your MC's life gets turned upside down.
In a novel you have 50 to 150K of words to get your story across. In a short story, you only have 5 to 15K or so. In most cases a short story can't afford a flashback or a retelling of any info. I would think that you are going to have to backtrack a bit from where you are currently begining to give the reader all of the info we need to understand what is going on.
Does that make any sense? I have been wrong on several occasions . This isn't a case of me telling you your writing is bad, so don't get me wrong. If I didn't think this had potential, I wouldn't be wasting my time typing all of this. I am just making some of the same suggestions that I recieved back when I started submitting my work on this BB and others. Whatever you do, don't stop, this could be a very good story. Anyway, If you would like, I would be glad to take a look at what you have, 6000 words, right? My e-mail is in my profile. It might take me about a week to get back to you, if that is OK. If not, no worries, keep up the good work.
posted
I understand what you're saying, TruHero. It's something I've pondered for a long time, myself. That's why I say I think I just need to put it aside until I'm ready to write a novel.
The problem I'm facing is I feel I've trimmed the story to the point that nothing else can be trimmed. Every scene is critical, and I've cut much that I regret, even. If I add more (and I agree it would work), then how long is it going to be, then? Will it be marketable if it's longer than 6k words?
I'm new to this. I wrote and submitted a few stories many years ago, but got out of it for a while. Back then, it seemed that anything over 5k words was risky. I don't know if this still applies today, so my concern is that adding more might mean it can never see publication.
So, it's not that I disagree with you; it's the opposite. I just don't know if I can do so without taking the leap to novel-length.
In context of where the story goes, I still think it works. The problem is just there is too much information to deliver within the first thirteen. I may be able to slow down the introduction, make things happen slower, but I'm not sure I could add any more scenes and keep it a short story.
posted
The short that I am working on is past 6000 words, and will most likely end up at 10K. The marketable length of your story, depends on where you submit. If you have a specific publication in mind that has a 5000 word limit, then no, it wouldn't work. But you would probably still be safe at 10 to 15K at most publications, even (I think) WOTF. There are always novella's and novelettes! Just think of them as short stories with more purpose.
I know where you are coming from, I have started many a short story that has blossomed into a possible novel. That is why I haven't submitted much myself, can't ever get them finished. I say go with your gut, don't pay attention to what I or anybody else is saying, if it doesn't fit your intentions. It's your story, dammit!
posted
Obviously, I need to look into that, then. I just realized that was fifteen years ago, so I'm sure much has changed. If I could get away with another 5k words, I'd be great.
I'm still not sure I'll start in a different place, but at least it'll give me room.
I have a heavy work schedule this weekend, but I'll try to send out the story to those who requested in the next couple days. I'll probably leave the opening in its current form until I get some more feedback on the entire thing.
posted
What I mean, lehollis, is to tell us here in a post. Not the usual thing, but it might help here.
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I agree with your 'more people than she expected' quote. But i think:
But that is all the more reason to start this in the correct place and give a clear, colorful and concise telling of the events from the moment that your MC's life gets turned upside down. 
. This isn't a case of me telling you your writing is bad, so don't get me wrong. If I didn't think this had potential, I wouldn't be wasting my time typing all of this. I am just making some of the same suggestions that I recieved back when I started submitting my work on this BB and others. Whatever you do, don't stop, this could be a very good story. Anyway, If you would like, I would be glad to take a look at what you have, 6000 words, right? My e-mail is in my profile. It might take me about a week to get back to you, if that is OK. If not, no worries, keep up the good work.
I say go with your gut, don't pay attention to what I or anybody else is saying, if it doesn't fit your intentions. It's your story, dammit!
