posted
This is a story I'm trying to figure out what to do with. It got nibbles from Analog, Interzone, and from Baen on-line, but no sale. Stan said it had too much dialog. Now that it has bounced from all the major markets, probably the smart thing to do is to retire it and move on. On the other hand -- three nibbles out of six submissions is not bad. Any suggestions? 1) How to improve the first 13 lines 2) retire or keep trying? 3) if I should keep trying, what's left to submit an sf story to after the "big six": Analog, Asimovs, F&SF, Intersone, Baen, and Medicine Show?
"I need you out in the field, Larry, not sitting behind a desk." (Thoom!) "Randy, please try to understand. I just met this girl..." Randolph Smith stood up, came around his large oak desk, and put an arm around Larry Wilson's shoulder. "Tell her your job requires travel. Because it does. If she's the right girl for you, she'll understand." (Thoom!) Larry shook off his boss's arm, shoved his hands into his pockets, and scowled. "Send somebody else." "I haven't got anybody else. US Steel needs you, Larry. I need you." "What about what I need?"
[This message has been edited by Rick Norwood (edited June 21, 2007).]
I assume the first line was – I need you out in the field….
The (Thoom!)s did not work at all. They were a distraction that did not pay off. I think you should drop them or rewrite this so that we learn what they are a whole lot sooner than the full first page must have done.
I think you’ve got a bit too much repetition in several places here and that it might be better to start without that first line. The second one brings in the whole idea much faster. Both the first line and the “Because it does” are unnecessary . You get the idea across with the line about his job requiring travel.
I’m not certain that you even need the narrative about Randolph coming around the desk. The four lines of dialogue are quite specific and evoke that feeling by themselves.
"Randolph, please try to understand. I just met this girl..." Randolph Smith stood up, came around his large oak desk, and put an arm around Larry Wilson's shoulder. "Tell her your job requires travel. If she's the right girl for you, she'll understand."
"Send somebody else." "I haven't got anybody else. US Steel needs you, Larry. I need you." [Right here is where you would insert some short, succinct details about this problem and I think the reader would accept it. Something like how – US steel was teetering on the brink of ruin and hero’s persuasiveness had come through twice before to keep the buyers from defecting to Nippon International…]
"Randy, please try to understand. I just met this girl..." "Tell her your job requires travel. If she's the right girl for you, she'll understand." "Send somebody else." "I haven't got anybody else. US Steel needs you, Larry. I need you." US Steel was in trouble and Randolph (Randy) Smith had four days left before the next ….
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited June 21, 2007).]
Keep in mind that the story was rejected by Analog specifically because it had too much dialog.
As for the "Thooms" -- the structure of the story is as follows. Each short section has something in it that is not explained. The next short section explains the "thooms" but introduces another feature that is not explained, and so on. The story ends with a double twist, the next to last section explaining one puzzle introduced early on and the last section explaining the big problem.
I think the idea of stating the big problem in the first thirteen lines is excellent -- why I don't see things like this myself I'll never know.
As for the "thooms" -- I'll wait and see what others think.
Any thoughts about sf markets other than the big six?
The problem I have with this is there is no context and well, the whining by an employee to a superior isn't very plausible to me. Also, there is generally a no touching rule in most workplaces. The guy putting his arm around another guy where at least Larry appears not to be gay didn't ring true for me.
The (Thoom!) is annoying. You are withholding and I don't like that.
I also don't have a clear idea of who the POV or MC are.
I think with a bit of reordering, cutitng and some additional information it would work as dialog but I still don't have a hook.
Ex, assuming Larry is the POV:
"I need you in the field," his boss, Randy Smith, said. "Can't someone else go? I just met Mary and will lose her if I am off planet for six years," Larry said. Randy stood up, walked around his oak desk, and patted Larry's shoulder. "I haven't got anybody else. US Steel needs you to terraform planet Evil Robot Monkey 34 so we can harvest the ore on it." Larry stood. "I'll quit before I go offworld."
****
In 8 lines I know the players, general time reference (ie sometime in the future where off world travel works), the event that starts the story (Larry being sent to the feild), and a mini conflict (Larry doesn't want to go). I'm not sure there is a hook but . . .
If you keep the (Thoom!) and the POV knows what it is, you should to tell the reader. If the POV doesn't know what it is, the POV should react to it.
The description you gave about where the story is going sounds really wonderful but your first 13 isn't doing it justice.
posted
There are a number of character points in those first 13 lines. Maybe they don't come through, but they are there for a reason. First, Larry is one of those people who is very, very good at his job, but totally inept socially. Second, Randolph needs Larry, and knows Larry requires some coaxing -- thus Larry calls his boss Randy rather than Mr. Smith (socially inept) and Randolph coaxes Larry and jollies him along, allowing Larry to call him by his first name and giving Larry physical contact he craves. As we see on the next page, Randolph knows perfectly well Larry's relationship with this girl is not going to work out -- Larry's attempts at relationships never work. But on the job, he is indispensable.
The "Thooms" are constant background noise, that are too common for the characters to take note of. They are also something Larry came up with that saved the company.
I still don't have any idea where I could send this story next, and if there are no more markets, then I need to put it out of my mind and move on. Have any of you had any experience with the Aussie on-line mag Cosmos?
I do appreciate all the comments, and the suggestion to put the problem up front is excellent and will be followed.
posted
Rick, the problem is that you know all these things, but the reader doesn't. You need to find a way to describe all that information so that the reader understands their motivations. (As in, you aren't getting across what you mean to convey.)
If the boss is the POV, then maybe get into his thoughts on why he's doing these actions. Also, what are the stakes? We know 'the girl' is the stakes for the employee, but why is there a hurry to send the man out when the relationship is doomed to end very soon, anyway?
Question: If these two are so used to the sound that they don't notice it, then why are they noticing it? Obviously your POV character does notice it if you've written the sound in. In my opinion, it's distracting, jerks me from the scene, and only makes me confused about what's going on.
posted
Rick the only problem is that onomatopoeia doesn't really hold the eye. In fact its almost too simple/concise
Thoom! The heavy acoustics of the foundry's furnaces hung in the air while the light staccato of metal on metal rang out in harmony. The symphony of industry was Larry's constant companion.
[This message has been edited by Matt Lust (edited June 21, 2007).]
posted
Confused. Is Larry sitting at a desk or Randolph? Because Randolph stood up, came around his (presumably Randolph's) large desk and... but Randolph (dialogue tags would help - I had to work too hard to figure out whose line was which) just told Larry he needs HIM out in the field not behind a desk. So who is behind a desk exactly?
Agree with what others have already identified - the thoom is annoying w/o some sort of explanation. If the POV characters really don't notice it, then it doesn't belong in the story. If you're deliberately obscuring information from the reader, well, that's a risk. I have no idea if that's one that would make a magazine take a pass, but it's possible.
One of the Hatracker's recently sold a story to Cosmos - check the forum - name of which is escaping me - that is for Hatrack folks to post news of sales or publications.
posted
Respectfully, if the character points don't come through then they aren't there.
The problem all of us have with critiquing our own work is that we know all the neat backhistory. When we read our first 13 lines we fill in the "missing" information. When someone here reads it, we don't know the backhistory. I will always skip the author's summary until AFTER I've read and commented on the 13 and then I'll read the summary to see if the information they thought was being conveyed was.
If the POV wouldn't notice the noise, it shouldn't be in the text. As an example, I was at DMV yesterday. The constant announcements - "now serving A056 at window number 7" gave me a headace. When it was finally my turn, I asked the person waiting on me how she could stand that noise since the speaker was right over her head. She said that she didn't even notice it anymore. So while my POV of that story has the announcements droning on, hers wouldn't mention them.
If Larry invented whatever made the "Thoom" and it saved the company AND Randy needs him to save the company again, Randy could listen for the "Thoom" and think, "I need Larry to pull another miricle like he did with the Evil Robot Monkey Masher out there. Without the ERMM, US Steel would have folded a decade ago." Now the "Thoom" is in context and I've learned what it is and how valuable Larry is to the company.
On markets, listen to the feedback you are getting here, use what you can, and resubmit. There are a ton of markets out there. Don't retire this story just because the big 6 said no. Look under the "Markets for Our Writing" topic for other ideas. If you think the story has legs, keep sending it out there. Getting published is 99.9999% persistence in the writing and submissions. And 0.0001% dumb luck.
posted
I do appreciate the comments, and I take them seriously. Some I incorporate into the story. Some I don't.
On the subject of POV. Many, probably most, of the stories I write are from the POV of one of the characters. For this particular story, however, I chose a cinematic POV. That is one of the reasons for the high proportion of dialog. Instead of picturing myself inside one of the characters, I pictured myself looking through the viewfinder of a camera. In this case, background noise is heard whether the characters notice it or not.
It also means that I cannot give any information about what the characters are thinking -- I have to use gestures and body language to convey that.
Maybe the cinematic POV doesn't work, but I wanted to explain what I was trying to do, since most of you assumed I was trying to do something else.
They are strange, strict guidelines (no use of tabs, single space, skip a line between paragraphs, 16 pt Times Roman) but well worth following for a good, new market.
Success in writing requires talent, hard work, and luck. Lack of any one of the three is fatal.
posted
I'm not sure there is such a thing as cinematic POV for writing or that it works. The closest is probably full 3rd person onmi which would let you get into everyone's head, or not.
The problem with "cinematic" POV for writing is the majority of what the reader experiences is from inside a reader's head. That's why when they made A River Runs Through It into a movie voice overs were used.
While I understand what you were trying to do, your story might be better if you allowed it to flow into someone's head. Without getting inside someone, you are going to be left with too much (because the characters must stay everything) and some unnatural dialog.
As an example, in your 13 you have Larry whining like a teenage girl. It didn't work for me. If you were in someone's POV, you could show me the character trait but still keep the dialog natural. Also, the "cinematic" POV leads to a lot of "As you know, Bob . . ." statements. Dialog the characters wouldn't naturally have because they already know the information but have to have to convey it to the reader.
It's also why the Thooms! don't work. No POV (even if that is the 3rd omni narrator) is there to put the noise in context.
You might try re-working it from a 3rd limited or 3rd Omni POV. If you did, I suspect it would really trim the dialog back.
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