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Author Topic: Turners, 1st 13, Fantasy, 4,500 words
Nick T
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Hi everyone,

As per normal, I'd like to get an opinion on the 1st 13 and see whether it works.

*Edit* This is actually finished at 4,500 words if anyone wanted to take a look...In version 3 below, I've change the pronouns once the protag knows Robin is a girl; is this too distracting?

regards,

Nick

Version 1

quote:
Though he was too sweet a boy, I decided Robin would be a woman for at least three years of his life. As unsuited as he was at twelve, he'd be ready for womanhood at eighteen with a bit of care. "Take your shirt off," I said and readied to confirm my choice. Robin stripped. And gods, he was not a boy I'd have to Turn into a girl at all. He was born a girl. Prior to puberty, a child had no discernable gender. But I Know if I see the heart unshielded and there was no denying it.
"Get dressed before you catch a cold," I said.
"Am I going to stay a boy?" Robin said. "I'd like to be a girl. Girls get lots of presents."

Version 2

quote:
Though he was too sweet a boy, I decided Robin would be a woman when he reached adulthood. As unsuited as he was now, he'd be ready in a few years. "Take your shirt off," I said and readied to confirm my choice. Robin stripped. And gods, he was not a boy I'd have to Turn into a girl at all. He was born a girl. Prior to puberty, a child had no discernable gender. But I Know if I see the heart unshielded and there was no denying it.
"Get dressed before you catch a cold," I said.
"Am I going to stay a boy?" Robin said. "I'd like to be a girl. Girls get lots of presents."

Version 3

quote:
Though he was too sweet a boy, I decided Robin would be a woman when he reached adulthood. As unsuited as he was now, he'd be ready in a few years. I placed my hand upon his neck, waiting to Know how difficult it would be to change him when the time came. And gods, she was not a boy I'd have to Turn into a girl at all. She was born a girl. Prior to puberty, a child had no discernable gender. But my Knowing is true and unerring and there was no denying it.
"Get home before you catch a cold," I said.
"Am I going to stay a boy?" Robin said. "I'd like to be a girl. Girls get lots of presents."

[This message has been edited by Nick T (edited February 27, 2010).]


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Phobos
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I think this was written effectively. Style and progression were good. All the elements were there. Other than not understanding the contradiction in the first idea, I couldn't find any real flaws other than it kinda creeped me out.

In a way it reminded me of a Sara Genge story in the way that she deals with gender, but situationally as told from this unknow gender(I am just realizing that there is no assigned gender and this may be a psychological trick but I assumed man as I read because of your name and the lack of gender assignment)So I apologized for my assumption. But it did have a kinda dirty feel to it. Maybe this would have had a different initial affect if I had thought of the character as a woman. I guess there is no way of knowing.

So, essentially, I guess my advice is to assign a gender to the character and see if anyone else has the same issue.


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babooher
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I agree with Phobos. The whole turning a boy into a girl thing seemed like the intro to crossdressing porn. I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying warning flags are flying.
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Nick T
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Hi,

Oh dear, cross-dressing porn is definitely not what I was looking for...The idea was that everyone is born a boy (with very rare exceptions). In order for there to be women, a "turner" (our protagonist) has to change men into women, based on their feeling of how easy it will be to do, etc.

I've tried to soften the age aspect (from which arises the central conflict in the story) in the 1st 13. Any less creepy?

NIck


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Corky
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Maybe if, instead of having the child take his shirt off, you had the turner feel the child's pulse (at neck or wrist) or something like that?

Edited to add:

How about feeling the child's heart through his back? Doctors use their stethoscopes on the back as well as the front, so maybe that would be a possibility?

After all, even with the shirt off, the turner isn't really seeing the heart "unshielded" unless there are no skin, chest muscles, or ribs in the way besides the shirt.


[This message has been edited by Corky (edited February 25, 2010).]


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Merlion-Emrys
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I didn't have a problem with the first version and did not find it "creepy" in any way. its obivously a different culture from ours. Of course I have rather...unorthodox ideas about such things anyway.
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satate
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I didn't have a problem with it either and I'd have to say that I lean toward the "prude" side. While reading the first few sentences I did wonder a little about gender changes and such, but by the end I could see it was simply a different, maybe alien, culture/species. I thought the first thirteen was good and would have made me want to read on, very interesting.
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Nick T
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Hi,

I think it's probably safer to use Corky's suggestion...having the shirt off is definitely not at all necessary and why take the risk of turning an editor away for anything apart from my bad writing? I might have a shot at writing a version 3 above.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Ms. Woodbury (see, I get it right most of the time), do you mind adding "4,500 words" to the title? No hurry obviously.

Regards,

Nick


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Done!
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Nick T
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Thanks Ms. Woodbury.
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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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You are welcome, Nick T.
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genevive42
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Looks interesting. If you're still looking for readers I'll volunteer.
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MrsBrown
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Either the children do not have a discernable gender, or they are all born boys. Can't have it both ways.

Personally I'd rather they start out genderless because I find the whole gender-switch idea somewhat disturbing, even in version 3. But so long as they're aliens, I'll buy it.


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redapollo9
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I think you have a really nice voice here, and the 1st person POV fits well.

On the subject of Knowing the kid's gender, I think the 3rd version has some advantages over the first two versions. First of all, I didn't get the cross dresser vibe or thought that the kid needed to go find an adult pronto when I read the first two versions. I was however, confused as to how he knew the kid's gender. Was it because she had stripped and he could...see? Or was she still in her physically gender neutral state and the guy was using his Knowing skills to determine her inner gender? The third version made it obvious that he was only using his Knowing skills. Secondly, as has been said, the third version is safer with respect to turning away editors and readers - without sacrificing meaning. Also, since the kid isn't shirtless in the 3rd version, it makes less sense when the turner says to go home before she catches a cold.

The science behind being born a <em>boy</em> "most of the time" puzzles me, though. It seems in nature (our nature, at least), that female is the default or undifferentiated gender. But that's probably just me over thinking things.

Overall, great opening. I would love to offer a read of the whole thing if you're interested in critiques.


[This message has been edited by redapollo9 (edited March 11, 2010).]

[This message has been edited by redapollo9 (edited March 11, 2010).]


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JSchuler
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Seconding MrsBrown, children are either boys, or have no gender.

Besides that, I like the third version. The first two were tripping alarm bells. A sweet boy, how much the observer wishes he was a woman, and taking off the shirt. The fact that there are references to the child becoming 18 made it worse, as that's the legal age of consent in much of the US. It almost read like a legal disclaimer.

But, the third version doesn't trip any alarm bells, and the story seems interesting. Not really my cup 'o tea, but interesting nonetheless.


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Nick T
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Thanks everyone.
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