I never thought I would see a sun this close. As I looked over the lumpy, gray surface I added, even a dead one. The surface of sun Three Omega looked more dead than any moon I knew of.

Cool suns were very rare. This sun had burned out but instead of turning into a black hole or going nova, it partially collapsed into a super dense space object. The gravity, outside of the mining unit I stood in, regisatered as greater than any planet. Not quite as heavy as a black hole though. Each of the metals that formed as the sun cooled, could be used even though the super dense Solarliam was the most sought after. They used it for FTL travel and radation shields. Certain medical devices used very tiny amounts of it. A little finger nail size amount though wieghed 100 pounds.

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Second time at First 13 lines. I have also revised the whole story if anyone else would like to critique the whole thing. One person is already, here but my writing needs all the help I can get.

"I never thought I would see a sun this close. As I looked at the uneven surface I added, even a dead one.

When this sun used up its fuel it collapsed and turned, into a super heavy space object, instead of a nova or black hole. ItÕs gravity registered as greater than any planetÕs.

Of course I would never actually touch the sun. The conditions: radiation, gravity, and the like, made sure that only machines could do the actual mining. And you had to have a very light touch and lots of patience to operate the controls. As huge and tough as the machines were, too fast of a move could snap a joint off. "

Have Fun

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I never thought I would see a sun this close. As I looked over the lumpy, gray surface I added, even a dead one. The surface of sun Three Omega looked more dead than any moon I knew of.

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The bold sentence felt a bit clumsy to me. The placement of the commas made me pause at awkward moments. Perhaps this is specific to me, though.

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This sun had burned out but instead of turning into a black hole or going nova, it partially collapsed into a super dense space object.

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A few nitpicks here.

"This sun" sounds very impersonal. As a reader, I personally want the sun to feel like a character of the story. Perhaps call it by its name?

Does it truly partially collapse, or does it collapse completely? I'm not sure on the science, but I have a hard time thinking of suns only partially collapsing. The concept doesn't really make sense to me personally.

The "space object" sounds again a bit impersonal. I would try calling it something else. After all, the protagonist is seeing something they never thought they'd get a chance to see.

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The gravity, outside of the mining unit I stood in, regisatered as greater than any planet.

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Not quite as heavy as a black hole though.

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Each of the metals that formed as the sun cooled, could be used even though the super dense Solarliam was the most sought after.

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A little finger nail size amount though wieghed 100 pounds.

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The bold little is not needed. We already know the size of finger nails.

The bold though reads awkward and, in my opinion, isn't needed.

I did enjoy the start, despite a few areas of ambiguity. The idea of mining a sun is interesting to me, mainly because it seems so impossible.

This does, however, bring me to a point. Many of the things in this story sound a bit outrageous from a science standpoint. This isn't necessarily bad, but it does force more upon you as an author. You'll need to give us reasons as to why all of this is possible. In our world, the gravity of a star would crush a man to death a million times over. The fact that they are not crushed to death brings emphasis on the question as to why they are not crushed to death.

Hope this helped.

I don't really go into detail about the science, I have machines do most of the actual mining. Specially designed, very expensive machinery. The drill is made from another sun metal that is refined.

I also never explain how the metal producers FTL speeds but I was thinking a lump of it is the catalyst to operate the FTL drive. Maybe I should put in a little description to explain that.

By the way I meant the nail to the little finger.

If so how does that work here?

And Gan I still don't know how to do quotes here.

Okay, Thaks:
How do we do that here?

I assume via E-mail but is everyone's E-mail on their profile?

"Member posted September 09, 2010 10:17 PM
The science-factor would be a big deal for me. If I came upon this story and there was nothing to provide for the suspension of disbelief (no science to back up your story) I would most likely stop reading. Because you are dealing with people in outerspace, this story probably falls into the realms of hard sci-fi. Editors who purchase hard sci-fi tend to be harder critics of the science end of the genre.
I'm not saying that mining a star is implausible (I believe that there could be theoretical means of doing this), but you should probably do a little star research before finalizing and sending."

And thanks for the e-mail advice. I should have realized it, duh.

But as to your comments. I know there are readers who like science in Science Fiction. If done right hard SCI FI can be very enjoyable and even educational. But I disagree with you about outer space being automatically hard SCI FI. I've read many stories without a mention of science that take place way out. Of course they aren't for every reader but that's okay. In fact I borrowed the idea for hard suits I use, which comes in later, from a couple of those stories.

But editors always find something(s) wrong with my writing so I doubt they will get far enough to reject it for not enough science, anyway.

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And Gan I still don't know how to do quotes here.

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LDWriter2, I'm going to put what I hope will show you, in the next paragraph. If it doesn't end up showing you, you can click on the edit icon (paper and pencil next to the email icon) and look at any post with quotes, and it should show you what the person did to create the quotes.

If you want to set things you are quoting from someone else or from some other post apart with the lines, you just need to put [quote] at the beginning of the quoted material and [/quote] at the end of the quoted material.

Firstly, on such a dense body, it isn't lumpy - the gravity is too strong to allow such lumpyness. I believe that on a neutron star (which is more dense than that of your story, but of the same order of magnitude), a mountain range may rise the height of about one centimeter, and wouldn't have any noticeable cliffs or crags.

Second, it wouldn't be a grey color - it would be white. White dwarf stars exist, but the surface temperature is still a few thousand degrees. No white dwarf has yet to cool enough to be below that. When they do cool, they turn from white to yellow to orange to red and then infra-red (i.e. black), rather than to grey. A bit like iron cooling down in the dark from white hot, it follows the blackbody spectrum.

Third, it is gravity keeping the material stable. If you were to take some away on a ship, it will likely expand very quickly into normal matter, probably explosively. Unless you have a way to keep it compressed, it will be of little use. (This issue is perhaps the most interesting of the above, because you can hypothesise away the problem, creating a number of potential technologies and story inducing consequences. Perhaps, for example, the degeneracy itself makes it partly stable. Also, an explosion may suck in energy from its surroundings, which would be interesting, particularly if investigating the consequences supercooled explosions.)

Fourth, I can understand FTL and radiation shields as important uses of the material - it might release enormous amounts energy at the correct rate for FTL, and it can much more efficiently block radiation than any material we are familiar with. However, medical devices these days are about precision, not about power, so my gut feeling is drop the line unless it is the critical element of the story. Otherwise it becomes something else that you really need to explain in detail to avoid the reader feeling that you dropped the ball (which they will if this were the only reference to it - the old gun over the mantlepiece example).

If the above do get navigated through, this does have the makings of an interesting hard or semi-hard SF story. If, on the other hand, it is space opera, then it is not the most appropriate beginning. The detail presented so far will attract the hard SF reader and wont attract the space opera reader (who would look for action, not explanation).

Send it through if you want. We get too few hard SF stories here ;-)

Thanks Kathleen.

here's an experiment

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If you want to set things you are quoting from someone else or from some other post apart with the lines, you just need to put

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at the beginning of the quoted material and

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A second try

Quote
If you want to set things you are quoting from someone else or from some other post apart with the lines, you just need to put

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at the beginning of the quoted material and

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One problem with your suggestion is that there is more than one material. I mention a second one later.

And Brendan

Actually I consider this story to be neither hard SCI FI nor space opera. I have written quite a few space opera stories and one or two sort of hard SCI FI but this one has no fighting in it. It's more emotional or interpersonal conflict.

I can change the color of the dead sun, that's no problem. The rest of it could be.

I understand that this story could very well go places where the science wouldn't be a concern. The problem I see, though, is that the way it starts indicates that it is going to be hard sci-fi. (In my opinion, of course)

This is an issue because you will be attracting an audience of hard sci-fi readers -- Who will then hate your story because it doesn't adhere to hard sci-fi 'rules'.

Remember: While you may know where the story is going, and what it is supposed to be, the reader does not. It's a difficult task to accomplish, but truly worth the reward in the end (In my opinion).

I hope I'm not coming off as harsh or anything. I do like the story, I just feel that perhaps it might be starting off in the wrong manner. And again, I'm no professional.

Like thus?

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Put the quote and /quote inside the [ ] brackets, and then the forum software will know that you want the quote lines to set off what you are quoting.

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OSC also talks about the contract with the audience - how you begin is how they will expect it to continue. If the main contract is to develop a character, then the story would needs to start with some emphasis on the character, rather than emphasising the millieu or the action etc. Your story started by detailing information about an idea - interesting information, but information that indicates it will be an idea type story rather than a character story. So, if it is a character story, then the information should primarily be about the characters first up, rather than the idea or setting - they can come later.

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I understand that this story could very well go places where the science wouldn't be a concern. The problem I see, though, is that the way it starts indicates that it is going to be hard sci-fi. (In my opinion, of course)

This is an issue because you will be attracting an audience of hard sci-fi readers -- Who will then hate your story because it doesn't adhere to hard sci-fi 'rules'.

Remember: While you may know where the story is going, and what it is supposed to be, the reader does not. It's a difficult task to accomplish, but truly worth the reward in the end (In my opinion).

I hope I'm not coming off as harsh or anything. I do like the story, I just feel that perhaps it might be starting off in the wrong manner. And again, I'm no professional.

Keep at it!

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Like thus?

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Put the quote and /quote inside the [ ] brackets, and then the forum software will know that you want the quote lines to set off what you are quoting.

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If you have been hanging around here for long enough, you most certainly will have met the MICE concept, which is a useful way of categorising different story types. (If you haven't, read some of the lessons on this website or OSC's book about how to write science fiction - highly recommended.)

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I haven't been around here very long and so far haven't seen hide nor fur of any MICE. And I don't think I've seen his book anywhere.

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OSC also talks about the contract with the audience - how you begin is how they will expect it to continue. If the main contract is to develop a character, then the story would needs to start with some emphasis on the character, rather than emphasising the millieu or the action etc. Your story started by detailing information about an idea - interesting information, but information that indicates it will be an idea type story rather than a character story. So, if it is a character story, then the information should primarily be about the characters first up, rather than the idea or setting - they can come later.

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Interesting idea, Maybe I do need to add something about his boss in there somewhere.

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Because you are dealing with people in outerspace, this story probably falls into the realms of hard sci-fi.

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But I disagree with you about outer space being automatically hard SCI FI.

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This is why I suspected your story to be hard sci-fi. You are focusing on "elements" that often attract hard sci-fi readers. There is nothing here that indicates this is about a "more emotional or interpersonal conflict".

Here is a very brief synopsis of using MICE in openings:
1 - If your story is about Milieu (the setting), in this case a star mining operation, then begin with the star, but that will emphasize the science aspect of your story.
2 - If your story is about an Idea, your story could start different ways depending on the idea. If there is a new use discovered for Solarliam, you should start with the science route. If it is a mystery about the disappearance of Solarliam being mined, then start with the problem (missing Solarliam).
3 - If your story is about a Character (emotional/interpersonal conflict - and growth), then you should begin by focusing on the character. At this point in your opening, I do not know anything about your character. The only thing you have given me to care about is the star and Solarliam.
4 - If your story is about an Event (the Solarliam makes everyone sick), then begin with the sickness. This is the problem that needs to be solved.

These are just examples of course, but hopefully, you get the idea. There was an interview posted a while back of several editors of leading science fiction magazines. As I recall, the two things they said they wanted to see most in openings were (1) voice and (2) for the opening give the reader a clear concept of the story's direction.

And thanks for the rest of the advice.

The story does have mining in it, it's an essential part of the story but the conflict is between my MC and his boss. But in one sense it could take place anywhere which means I will redo the opening to include something about his boss. Even though I want to keep the first sentence.

Thank you Kathleen, I copied it so I can reread it a few times.

I presume this isn't our sun? No, so it is a star in another system. So humans are capable of interstellar travel (I would guess minimum 100+ years in the future, but likely a lot more). Yet an operator has to 'drive' the miners by remote control? Doesn't add up--an AI would do it better without a delay (signal delay)

I have my doubts that anything in contact with the surface of the sun could leave its gravity well. The energy required to leave earth, which is a tiny percentage the mass of our sun, is huge: to leave a star would be phenomenal. Recovering the mined material (which is super dense) would require massive energy expenditure (although likely impossible--not in a black hole sense, but in practial terms). This 'unobtanium' of yours better be worth it.

I think anything you sent down on the surface would be flattened by the gravity and would be unable to move.

Also why is the whole of your intro a quote?

The prose is quite nice.

Mining a star shows it has to be hard SF?

Guess I'm going to have to put in something about his new boss sooner.

The problem is--and I see this has been a thorn for you--is how you are starting. The star-mining isn't being simply portrayed as a back-drop, because you spend 50% of your intro on explanations and facts, which then have to stand up:

1. As I looked at the uneven surface I added, even a dead one.

Q. Would a dead star with star's gravity have an uneven surface. Especially from the distance you (POV) say you are from it. I would imagine it would look smooth. Something with the mass of a star may not shine, but it may still be active...

2. When this sun used up its fuel it collapsed and turned, into a super heavy space object, instead of a nova or black hole. It's gravity registered as greater than any planet's.

Q. I looked on the net but could find nothing about 'a super-heavy space object'; what is this classification based on? What other types of superheavy space objects are there. Stars usually become (and I have limited knowledge) black holes, supernovas, neutron stars or black dwarves.

3. The conditions: radiation, gravity, and the like, made sure that only machines could do the actual mining. And you had to have a very light touch and lots of patience to operate the controls. As huge and tough as the machines were, too fast of a move could snap a joint off. "

Q. My earlier comment about retrieving the machines moving the machines; remote controlling the machines and getting the 'unobtanium' of the star still stand.

If you had started the story in the control centre with Geoff carefully driving a digger by remote control over the surface of the star, while chatting to his friend about a beauty he met in the cafe that morning. His friend is monitoring seismic activity, you would have a different set up. You would also have indirectly said the following:

1. These guys are mining a star that is cold. I am not going to explain how that works because the story is about other things--accept it.

2. It's a dangerous environment--of course.

My advice is be vague and unspecific about the science you write (while knowing it in your head). Start the actual story first and weave in some of this stuff as required as observations/conversation etc.

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Yes, mining a star IS hard sci-fi. A love story between to star-miners isn't.
The problem is--and I see this has been a thorn for you--is how you are starting. The star-mining isn't being simply portrayed as a back-drop, because you spend 50% of your intro on explanations and facts, which then have to stand up:

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Thanks for the advice Skadder. I appreciate the time.

But if an idea I have doesn't work(please pardon the way I'm going to say this, I don't mean it the way I think it will sound) and if you are correct, then the story is dead but it would most likely be DOA anyway, Of course that isn't unusual for my writing.

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I also looked this up back when you first posted the story. I learned a little bit about stars - thank you. It appears that what you describe could theoretically happen; however, the time it would take is longer than the current known age of the universe.
Once a star is dead, it will have quite a bit less density due to most of it's hydrogen having been burned up. I still don't think it would be possible to land on it, but if their technology could simulate gravity bubbles it might. Personally, I would find it more interesting if they were trying to mine a live star - scooping solar flares.

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Thanks for looking the 13 lines over. I knew before I started writing that I had made up something that so far isn't real. Larry Niven, I think, did it with his "Intirigal(?) Trees". I know I blew it badly with that name but my copy of the book is buried somewhere around the house. But I believe there's so much out there that we don't know half of what there is and that there will be events and objects that punch holes in the theories around today. So it would be possible for a sun to cool down and become hard.

And you could very well be right about scooping solar flares. Could be a fun sport or a very dangerous, wish I could do anything else, occupation. I had an idea about mining a "living" sun-not the flares- but didn't go with it. Or I should say not gone with it yet. You could try it though.