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Author Topic: I'm sure this is an old chestnut
hoptoad
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Hi guys I'm back from leave. (More or less)

I am having the experience that certain character's in my WIP are coming to life in my mind and threaten to do and say strange things that will effect the plot in unpredictable ways.

What worries me is that they are not major characters but are looming ever larger.

It feels dangerous. Has anyone ever had this happen?

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited January 15, 2005).]


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Christine
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Yes and it's wonderful. Go with it. If your characters are taking on a life of their own and insisting that things be done that way then you have taken your world a step closer to reality. You may end up having to rethink your plot but that's ok...character-driven stories are fascinating. Plot-driven stories show.
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Jeraliey
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Yes! Ain't it crazy?!

Some of the best developments in my WIP have come from stuff like that, in my opinion. I say run with it. Make sure your POV is solid, but then let the characters do what they will. It can be frustrating when a character just won't do what you want them to, but I think it's a sign that they have really become people rather than tools to your plot or theme. They probably have more depth than you ever planned. Explore a little. If you don't like it, you can always go back and change it.

Last two cents: You've run into my absolute favorite part of fiction writing. Have fun with it; don't be scared!


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goatboy
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Let's see, you're saying that your imaginary friends are talking to you and doing things without asking first?

Happens to me all the time. I don't worry until they start chanting. Chanting is always, always bad.


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Jeff Vehige
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Perhaps your subconscious is telling you that you're writing the wrong story.

My own view of storytelling is a lot like Stephen King's---you discover your story, you don't invent it. And the only way you discover your story is through the process of telling it. This is why I'm a big advocate of extra-long first drafts. Just let it all hang out; discover what you have. Get that first draft finished. Then you're in the position to figure out what kind of story you have, whose story it is, how to structure it, and how to tell it.

This doesn't mean you can't outline a story before you write it. But you have to see your outline as a road map. The map may end up being wrong, or certain road you though were open are really closed. In other words, an outline should be abandonded as soon as you see that your story has transcended it.


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Heresy
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Jeff, I agree with you, both about discovering your story and extra-long first drafts. I'm about 50,000 words into my first draft of my work in progress. I'm not sure, but I think it's going to be about 150,000 words long when I'm done. That's longer than I want it to be, especially for a first novel (assuming I can get it published). There are also some fairly significant parts that I'll have to rewrite or heavily revise because of things that I discovered during the writing thus far. I'm pushing on though, getting this draft done despite that. I want to get through it before I worry about any of that because, once I've discovered the story, I can mould it into what it really is. I'm sure I'll be able to reign in the length once I get to the point of revising/rewriting too.
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Jeff Vehige
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Everything you said is true. However, you might want to mentally prepare yourself to the fact that you'll have to write an entirely NEW draft of your novel. But just think of what you can do with it. You've already told the story once. You know the characters and their fates. You're in a much better position, now, to introduce the characters correctly, to foreshadow with subtly, and to structure (i.e., plot) your novel is such a way that it's hard for the reader to put it down.
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Heresy
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Don't worry, I'm completely prepared for having to rewrite the whole thing. I've done that with most of my short stories, And yes, it has generally made the story far better, when I have done so. However, I'm trying not to discourage myself and keep my mind on what is in front of me, which is writing this first draft.

[This message has been edited by Heresy (edited January 15, 2005).]


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djvdakota
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Oh, yes, hoptoad. What they said.

If they want to come to life, let them. If they want to show you more of the story, let them. GO, man! GO!!


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rickfisher
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Hoptoad,

I agree with pretty much everything said above. However, if you feel like these characters are somehow ruining the story you want to tell (and I don't mean changing the story you meant to tell, but ruining the story you want to tell), then I think it's appropriate to smack those characters back into line by adding appropriate plot elements, so that they simply can't do what they want. I would not recommend trying to change their nature back to what you originally had envisioned, so that they'll behave properly. Having your characters come alive is the best thing that can happen; don't try to squash it.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited January 15, 2005).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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One thing you might consider doing when you start your rewrite, Heresy, is put the first draft aside and not look at it while you write the story the way you know it should be written.

By doing that instead of editing the first draft, you do two things: you bring more freshness to your story because it isn't worked-over old stuff, and you produce your second draft with writing skills that have improved since you started that first draft.

I confess that I think this would be easier to do with a short story than with a full-length novel, but I still offer it as an approach you may want to take.

As for hoptoad's question, there are writers out there who would encourage you to "fire" uncooperative characters and find ones that will help you tell the story you started out writing in the first place. (Lajos Egri's ART OF DRAMATIC WRITING is one place you will find this kind of advice, in case you want to see what he says about the question.)

I think it depends on what works for you as a writer and for the story you want to tell.


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Lord Darkstorm
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I was toying with the idea of rewriting a short story I did a while ago. Give a fresh start and see what happend. I guess my main character didn't like my vision of him.

Anyways, I've spent the last six hours or so writing a story that went a complete new direction than the original. Good thing is, I think I actually like this version. I think I'll wait a few days before printing it out and reading it over.

If I still think it's a good thing, I'll toss it to the wolves in the FF section once I've cleaned it up a bit. I'm sure I have a nest of grammar mistakes.

It is still the fastest short story I've written, even if it is only 4k words. So I guess I agree that letting the characters figure it out can turn out better than a planned story sometimes.


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dpatridge
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my writing style has always been to give the characters as much freedom as possible... if they weren't free to make mistakes i'd never be able to get the story long enough :P

if a character REQUIRES me to nudge them to get them to do anything, whether good or not, that's when i trash the current vision of them and remake them.

a character doing else than what i want them to? i'll just find a way to steer things back and let the character learn from their mistake. i feel it adds depth to the character if you let them make mistakes.

of course, sometimes it was i who made the mistake, and then i make sure to thank the character profusely for correcting me


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Jeff Vehige
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quote:
So I guess I agree that letting the characters figure it out can turn out better than a planned story sometimes.

Much of this, Lord D., has to do with the fact that you've already written the story once. Even if it changed direction, you've already told it. This is one reason why you hear of some writers (usually literary writers who don't count on their writing to earn their livelihood) writing 10, 12, even 20 drafts of the same story. Through the process of telling and retelling a story, their own understanding of it becomes clearer, and with that clarity comes a sharpness of storytelling.

hoptoad . . . though I've never tried this, here's a technique I read about some months ago. You write your first draft, letting it all hang out. After letting it sit for a number of weeks, you read through it, making as many notes (in a notebook or on a legal pad) as you need. Then you start writing 12-page story treatments (about 3000 words)--narratives in which you introduce the main characters and work out the various plot lines. The goal is to write one treatment a day. But each treatment needs to be different in structure, point of view, beginnings, middles, endings--the whole shebang. The theory is (again, I've never done this) that with each treatment you start understanding the story's implications more fully. And as you do that, you begin see the best way to tell your story. Once you get your treatment finished, then you're set to write your second draft.

I think that if you can work this way--if your mind works like this--it would be a great technique to employ and master. In a few months you could write 20 to 30 "drafts" of your novel. But again, you have to have a mind for it. The one reason why I've never tried it is because I can't see any other way to tell my story. That either means that I intuitively know the best way to tell a particular story before I begin my frist draft (very unlikely) or that my stories are so simpleminded that can't be told in any other way (very likely).

[This message has been edited by Jeff Vehige (edited January 16, 2005).]


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djvdakota
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Kathleen said:
quote:
As for hoptoad's question, there are writers out there who would encourage you to "fire" uncooperative characters and find ones that will help you tell the story you started out writing in the first place.

I would agree with Kathleen but for one big BUT, and that is, do this on the second draft. Not the first. If you decide you have to fire a character in the second draft you can save all that good material you would otherwise delete and build another story. I was amazed as I wrote my first draft how many other stories it showed me that are waiting to be told. I guess they just had to introduce themselves to me first so they butted into my WIP.


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Good suggestion, Dakota. Thanks.
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hoptoad
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It does feel dangerous; but exciting too, euphoric. Even their manner of speech has altered. Some speak well, others make consistent grammatical errors.

These changes however, have only just started happening. The beginning now feels like a pencil sketch and as the story has progressed, elements added. Shading first, light and dark, then touches of colour until all I hit some previously unrecognised threshold. The character's are full colour AND moving.

'Its alive!'

I now realise that the liveliness only came after I started cataloguing the scenes and who was doing what with whom. I could see a web of interactions and started wondering 'why' certain people acted like they had never met. What would happen if they did? I charted parallel unwritten movements of these characters (back a long way before the story began) and realised some must frequent the same pubs and must know each other from the local church at least. So I wrote more informed and thoughtful character sketches. I guess said simply, it is the result of good solid character-building work.

I will do as suggested and write the first draft through, firing the 'spoilers' in the second. I like Jeff's last suggestion, I think it will suit my way of working.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited January 19, 2005).]


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