posted
I'd vote for the second one. Although I like dialects, some people don't. I think in "slang" it's a matter of preferance. The first example seems to me that your only doing it halfway. The second version seems more complete.
My measure is, does it sound correct in your head? Always go with what sounds like your character talking, and that should be good enough.
posted
I would always spell it out. Let the word choice do it for you.
Sometimes, when you're writing it, it feels like it really needs to have the "g" dropped. But I never do that, and no reader has ever complained. I think it's something that only bothers people when they write, not when they read (if the word choice is done properly). On the other hand, a whole bunch of runnin's and jumpin's and hollerin's can get really tiresome.
Of course, when you read it aloud (or even in your head) you should say (or think) "movin'." But that's because the other language gets you thinking in the right voice.
[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited March 07, 2005).]
posted
I would not have noticed the final G in the first example if you hadn't had the second one there. And I read it as movin'. On the other hand, dropping the final G is probably such a recognized stylistic choice that it won't cause people to stumble. Even so, I'll second Mr. Fisher's comments; let the word choice guide the dialect, not the spelling.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Slag, when used in dialogue, should be consistent. If your character said the first sentence, then leave it. If they said the second, then leave it. Make sure your publisher understands which one you want or an overly zealous editor who speaks very little English will 'correct' it for you.
I have characters who will say, "Thanks." "See ya later!" and "What are ya doing wi' that knife, luv?" As long as you're consist for the reader, that's the important thing.
Oh, and why should slang be avoided? Because your standard American reader doesn't want to work that hard to read a story. As a first piece, you might not want to go overboard with in the slang department unless 1) It's necessary to the story; and 2) You are VERY good at writing it.
Of course, that being said, most Science Fiction readers and Adult Speculative readers are not your average American.
Those top 10 best sellers... that's your average American reader. (under breath) and if I have to read and edit ONE MORE Tom Clancy novel, I prefer death.
posted
There's nothing wrong with slang. Dialect which is written out phonetically, on the other hand, can be very difficult to read. Stylistically it has fallen out of favor, in part because of its difficulty, but also because it no longer serves the same purpose. When phonetic dialects were appropriate choices, sound recordings did not exist. If one wanted a American reader to know what a Welsh accent sounded like the only way to do it was to duplicate it on the page. Now, one can reference the sound with rhythms and word choices without needing to do the phonetic spelling.
For instance, what dialect is this passage written in?
quote:I reckon I felt right sorry for her. I just kept on thinking, "How come she left them others over yonder?"
Would it really be improved by writing it like this?
quote:Ah reckon ah felt right sorry fer her I jest kep' on thinkin', "How cum she lef' dem oders o'er yonder?
Now a little bit sprinkled in like "gonna" instead of "going to" make sense but largely because they are commonly accepted forms of written slang. Which is why dropping the final G is probably fine--because we see it so often--but unnecessary.
[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited March 07, 2005).]
posted
Slang is out? Wow! Now I'm REALLY baffled as to why Trip Trap sold!
And that brings up a very important point to consider. The choice you make depends very much on the voice of the character. If it's a kid, for example, who uses 'ain't' just to annoy his mother, then the voice is a normal one mixed with some slang. Leave the g. However, if the voice needs to be a hard drawl in order to establish the character in a certain way, then you'd definitely want to drop the g.
The real key, IMO, to doing the drawl successfully is to VERY CAREFULLY consider every uttered phrase to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN it is easily readable. If your reader has to stumble just ONCE over what the guy is trying to say, you're sunk.
posted
I swear snopes was composed by a guy who travelled back in time to write down everything my mother told me growing up. For instance, "Ain't" is supposedly a real English word.
I'm particular to what dakota says. She knocked it right in the eye. Good job, friend. Only, I'm willing to forgive the stumble, until I pick up the cadence. That's another piece of the pie right there, cadence.
Like I said before, some people appreciate the drawl and others don't. I wouldn't necessarily label it slang, just voicing. Slang, to me, is the use of replacement words and the like, not shortening or emphasizing them. I don't know if I stated that right, so here is the definition:
A kind of language occurring chiefly in casual and playful speech, made up typically of short-lived coinages and figures of speech that are deliberately used in place of standard terms for added raciness, humor, irreverence, or other effect. Language peculiar to a group; argot or jargon: thieves' slang.
posted
No one ever pronounces the "G" in "-ng" words anyway. Well, except people from LonG ghi-sland. And they say it twice. Go ahead and spell it out.
OSC talked about the "-ing" thing in Bootcamp last year. He asserted that the difference between "I'm goin' to the store" and "I'm going to the store" was one of implied intelligence. Since there isn't any true pronunciation difference, the first sentence is just a way of demeaning the character's intelligence or education level. To be perfectly clear, he said it wasn't a good technique. Although I don't remember his exact words, the overall impression that I was left with was that it was "arrogant writing--a cheap shot to make the writer feel superior to the stereotypical character he's writing."
posted
i've been reading this and thinking that the dialect i've made for Slicer is not very popular... the thing is, it doesn't follow strictly any EXISTING dialect, therefore i either have to not have him have a dialect, or use a stereotypical one... neither sounds very appealing to me, so i'm going to continue to write it the way i have for years, and unless an editor in the future chases me with a big old red pen over it, i don't see the problem.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Card mentioned the same thing at bootcamp in '03. Always wrinte -ing, he said.
I'm not a big fan of doing things to make dialogue unreadable. Dialoge, for me, is the part that really gets a story moving and really shows me the interaction between characters. When you slow that part down by making me sound out things like "ah" for I and "goin'" for going I have a tendency to put the book down. (And I barely tolerated Twain. The thing about him is, he's from a different time. Writintg evolves as everything else does.)
Here's the thing about your assertion that at work you say -ing and at hom you say -in' ... Unless there is a more significant dialect switch between home and work I suggest you don't say it. If your character wears a suit and tie to work and speaks in front of a judge in highly intellectual tones, but then goes home to speak like a poor black person, then that is significant enough to illustrate. It's weird. We'll want to know why but we'll need constant reminders THAT it's true, because the educated black people I know go home and speak on a level with how they speak at work.
But if you have a character with an accent, the occassional reminder that he is using that accent along with a careful word choice that illustrates the manner of speech, is almost always sufficient. The nuances of professional vs. home life are usually a mundane detail, IMO, and if it's that important to you there are always options like demonstrating that she is a professional at work and very laid back at home.
posted
I've spent a lot of time studying how people talk… different slang, and dialects, etc… and I even used AIM and other IMs as a tool for accurately imitating all the different slang and dialects, and even my own speech patterns… end result… use it when ever you feel that it's important. If you have some character who was brought up on the street, having them use perfect English might occur to some people as not making all that much sense… unless the character turns out to be a complete genius with a brain that just keeps growing (but I think that’s been done by someone already).
Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Dialect is syntax adn word choice, not pronunciation.
Scholars of Arabic diglossia might beg to differ on that.
I'd say dialect is seldom a matter of syntax, but I'll throw it out there for discussion.
RFLong's link brought up the interesting point that most people think "aren't I" is more grammatical than "aint I" even though there is no logical reason it should be. It's a fool that looks for logic in the grammatical heart.
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