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Author Topic: The myth of the in-POV opener
Christine
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All right, let's talk openings for a minutes. More specifically, let's talk about theopenings we see on F&F.

It seems to me that every time an opening paragraph doesn't have the main character's name followed by an action he is performing or a thought he's thinking it's, "You need to establish the POV more quickly." or "What's the POV?"

There are many, many, many, many ways to start a story. The key to a good opening is not establishing POV quickly. It is finding something that compells the reader. Something odd or mysterious or action-packed or sad or angry. ONE way to do this is by starting with the character's name and some thoughts, but only one.


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RavenStarr
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In a short story that I'm writing now, the actual character isn't even seen until the second page (it's a comp. book, so I guess it's closer to the middle or end of the first page)... the setting of the room it's self is almost more of the character at first, kinda of enforcing the concept that the room the person lives in can almost describe the person better than ever seeing the person...
Then there's the first person novel that I started a while ago (but is presently on hold at the moment). I open it in a way that's so off kilter, that it even baffled me on why I started it like that (the concept of being possessed by a muse can be very literal with me sometimes)... it kinda starts like how some TV shows and movies start (such as "Butterfly Effect"), where your for some reason already seeing the results of something, but then suddenly the story retracts and says "by the way, this is how we got to here"... even though it still blows my mind that I wrote it like that, the muses just simply wont let me change it...

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hoptoad
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Christine.
I concur.

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JBSkaggs
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I respond to what would best connect me to the story. Not what is the best technique available for every story.

If for example I am reading a story where somebody is facing a tension filled scary moment I like to be in that POV.

I say that because for me seeing something isn't as moving as experiencing it.

Let me explain:

I see a man going to be executed. I see him tied to the post. I see him get shot.
I see him die.

This affects me but not personally.

Now I experience the POV of being led to the shooting wall. I feel the POV's emotions of racing heart and watery legs. I empathize with being hogtied like an animal to the wooden post. The POV's pain and fleeting life become part of me as the shot rings out.

The second way makes the writing more personal and connected for me.


On the other hand I love narrative openings done well. Stephen King's Needful Things is one. (that opening haunts me) But become nauseous at poorly written ones.

So I agree there are many ways to open a story. But no matter what way you should hook and grab the reader as fast as possible and hold on to them. For me personally long descriptive or informative setups are usually a bore.


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wbriggs
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Ditto.

Thing is, I don't *want* to be confused about whose viewpoint it is. And I don't want to not know who I care about. Sure, you can do anything in fiction, but if you're going to leave me in the dark about these things, there'd better be something compelling to make up for it, or I may ruffle through the pages to the next story.


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hoptoad
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I feel understanding viewpoint is one of those, 'AHA . I know the trick', things.

The whole 'camera' analogy has never helped me much.

A bit thick I guess, but who the heck is the cameraman?


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KatFeete
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I'll agree with you in the sense that all generalizations are wrong and there's no one way to start a story.

However....

The times I've said something like "you need to establish POV sooner" in a crit, I've been trying to find a nice way of saying "your story is limited third person, but the first paragraph is omniscient. I now feel the urge to throttle you" or "If I wanted a weather report, I wouldn't be reading fiction" or "Two kingdoms are at war, and I now know their entire histories. Did I want to? No, I did not."

Some of this is the normal urge to waffle and wander around looking at the scenery a bit before you start writing real story: fine, as long as you either make it interesting to people other than you or cut it on the rewrite. The other problem, though, is that a distant POV - omniscient or camera's eye - is *the* most difficult to write for most people. Partly this is because they're not written often any more, and it's hard to write in a style you're not familiar with - but more it's that the distant viewpoint is such a tempting void for the author's voice to fill. It takes a light touch and a lot of self-control not to take the story away from your characters. Heck, I can't even keep my hands off the last cookie; I'm nowhere near self-controlled enough for distant POV.

Uninvolved openings are distant POV. Sometimes, in the bad cases, it's an actual POV shift (see previous "throttle" comment); other times it's merely a distanced version of the main POV. This is acceptable, but it takes self-control.

Getting the main character in the first sentence doesn't always fix this problem, but when you're critting a newbie writer, it's the easiest quick fix you can offer. At least the weather's a little more interesting when it's in POV.

[This message has been edited by KatFeete (edited March 11, 2005).]


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MaryRobinette
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KatFeete--your analysis of the situation made me laugh. I know exactly what you mean.

I'm sure most of you have read this by now, but Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is a really nice use of a light-touch omni-pov. It's used well and the story would be weaker, I think, if he went with straight limited third person POV.


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Christine
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Kat, I must both agree and disagree with your analysis.

First, let me just say this...by saying, "You need to establish a clear POV" when what you really mean is "I know the history of your world but don't care" is a cruel joke to play on an author who has saked you what you think. He doesn't want to know what you think will FIX the problem nearly so much as what the problem is in the first place, and then once he understands that telling him how to fix it might go over better. Does that make sense?

I had five people tell me one time to cut a novel chapter's lenght in half. They didn't tell me why and fof months I fretted about it, knowing that the information in that chapter was important to the story I wanted to tell, the story they could not yet see. Then I reread something OSC said: Often, when people want you to cut information you should actually make it longer! The reason is that they are having a "So what?' reaction. They don't care about the information, and that could be for a lot of reasons...one of which is that they don't really understand the importace of the information because you didn't go into enough detail and spend enough time.

SO I made the chapter LONGER, and you know what? It worked.

This is an example of why trying to help fix a problem without diagnosing doesn't work. Be honest, and not just circumstpectly. Be polite, phrase it as your opinion, but be honest and SPECIFIC. Whatever's bothering you, whatever's driving you to want a third person limited POV established from the start, that's what you've got to tell the author.

And the other thing I wanted to disagree on is the idea that just because the rest of the stoyr is in third person limited it has to start there. The fade-in opening can work well, IMO. Card calls it a "free paragraph" in which you can establish setting, atmosphere, or something else of important berore getting ot your in-POV paragraph. Now, this is subject to the same rules. If you find yourself getting a history lesson that's not working for you, you may still advise starting in POV, but what you *really* mean is that you don't like the history lseson, not "This didn't establish POV quidckly enough."


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KatFeete
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quote:
I must both agree and disagree with your analysis.

Quite legitimately. As far as your first concern goes, I should clarify - I never say "you need to establish POV earlier" by itself. What I'm more likely to say is "This is nice scene-setting, but I'm having trouble caring about it. Perhaps getting us interested in your character first would help" or "I found this disorienting - the rest of your story is in limited third POV, but this is omniscient. Try making it from the character's POV." If the writer shows signs of not understanding POV, I expand a bit.

Which brings me to your second point. I agree! There's nothing wrong with a zoom-in opening, if you know what you're doing. The majority of the people who use it don't. They don't even know that they're going out of POV; some of them don't know what POV is. Not just the term - the whole concept. I blame television, personally.

Even people who know what they're doing often mess up, because, as I said, it's an opening that requires self-control and a light touch. When it's done well, it's brilliant - but not all of us can be Tolkien.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I hated this kind of opening, or that I recommend against it. I don't. Every time I say something like that it comes back and bites me in the butt anyway. But it's definately on my "handle-with-care" list.

[This message has been edited by KatFeete (edited March 12, 2005).]


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franc li
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I guess my main thought on openings is that if I waited until my opening was perfect, I'd never get around to finishing my story.
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