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Author Topic: Naming GOD
scm288
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It would be obvious that in fantastical and alien settings, that cultures with a knowledge of God would probably not call him 'God'.

I've only seen two good examples of someone doing this well, both from the same author: C.S. Lewis' 'Maleldil' in his Space Trilogy and 'Aslan' in the Narnia books.

How does one do this? I've been trying, but all of the names I come up with either sound mediocre or plain awkward. This is crucial to my story, but I just can't figure it out.

[This message has been edited by scm288 (edited December 08, 2005).]


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Matt Lust
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You have to intergrate it into the culture that is saying it.

It has to "feel" right for your alien culture to say it.

Take Grok in Stranger in a Strange Land. such a simple word but one that encompassed the whole of Heinlein's Martian culture.

Contrarily the use of the Gods in George R.R. Martin let him use the word Gods with the appropriate modifiers like The seven who are one or old gods or Horse god etc.

Since your audience is english you can use the word god with the appropriate modification to define your diety.


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Survivor
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Hmmm...I don't know about that.

If you mean that an alien culture wouldn't use our word, "God" to mean "Supreme Being", then you're certainly right. One interesting thing is that our own terminology, using the capitalized form of the generic term for a superhuman entity, is much more in line with how "God" is translated into other languages that didn't develop with a monotheistic tradition. Certainly the term "Maleldil" fits into this mold, being "eldil" with an honorific prefix. "Kamisama" is a good example of the same thing. Even the old "Elohim" follows this rule.

So that's one approach, if the culture has a word for supernatural creatures, just find some way of attaching an exclusive honorific to it.

The other approach, used in "Aslan" is to simply have the name be an actual name. This is a secondary pattern used in many religions, most notably Christianity generally, where (leaving aside Trinitarian complications) "Jesus" is the name of God. Of course, it is usual for the name to have some kind of meaning in the tradition that first generated it, and that meaning throws light on the percieved nature of God in that culture.

So, think for a bit about what these people would think of as the defining characteristic of God? For Christians, it is the fact that He is the promised (annointed) Redeemer (savior), hence "Jesus Christ". Then think of a way to make a name that would have expressed that core concept at the formative point in their religious development.


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Elan
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You can give your god an unfamiliar name and once you've built a relationship with the name and your intent, your reader won't have a lot of trouble following along.

Consider whether you are using the word "God" as a proper noun or not. God, as a proper noun, is the ENGLISH name for the creator of the universe. There are a plethora of non-English-speaking, non-western, real-life-human cultures who don't use the word God; they use names like Allah, Brahmin, etc.

If you are using the word god as a normal noun, as in "The gods must be crazy", then you don't need to seek a substitute name for it. It's a generic noun that encompasses all Gods.

In other words, 'god' is a thing, and 'God' is a specific person. So to speak.


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wbriggs
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The name "God" has an assumption that there's only one. If there were more, we'd need a less generic name, to distinguish him from the others.

It's also short, which suggests God is referred to with some regularity. We have "pan" and "pen," but "rotisserie" and "Phillips-head screwdriver" for less commonly referenced things.

This God is also referred to as the Creator (Indians), or something like the Emporer of Heaven (in Japanese). I don't know what Allah means, but I'd bet it's much the same.

OTOH the Kikuyu, I think it was, of Kenya, call God "Ngai." It would be possible to use a name that doesn't have a clear other meaning, like "Aslan."


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franc li
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Allah means God. When they talk about pagan gods, they call them allayin or however you write the plural of Allah. Part of their prayer is "There is no god but God." They don't have capitalization to help with the distinction. There is the phrase "Allah huwa Al Akbar" which means God is the greatest, extending to the meaning there is nothing which is greater than Allah.

Allah is also Jehovah/Yahweh. The Arabs know that the god who spoke to Moses is the same creator of the earth that they worship. In Humanities, I was told that Yahweh means "I am that I am". It is from the same root as the "huwa" used in the Arabic phrase above.

Then there is the description of Jesus in the first chapter of John, about "The Word". Goethe did an exploration of this in Faust where he tried different translations of the Greek Logos as "The Thought", "The Power" and "The Deed". And of course there is variations on "Soul" and "Spirit". While not a personal god, I also like the Taoist concept of "The Path".

Has it been long enough since Star Trek V to talk about God being at the center of everything?


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Spaceman
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All theological arguments aside, it might be useful to remember the Athiest claim when developing an alien religion. That is, Man created God in his own image. Or in this case, alien creates Wartzle in his own image.
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TruHero
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This may seem cliche'd or even too hard to pull off, but what about not really naming him at all? His name is so sacred that if spoken it may un-do creation. True believers wouldn't even think of verbalizing it. Perhaps there is an evil faction that uses his true name to some chaotic evil end. It could be only known a symbol or they just call him "The Voice", "The Truth" or The Source".
In this vein, you may open up a plethera of other plot opportunities.

Other than that, I second Survivors and some of the others suggestions. It only makes sense. Perhaps you could use Yahweh,Elohim or any of the others as derivitives to give it some basis for suspension of disbelief for your reader.


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Jeraliey
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Another "name" for G-d that is often found in everyday Judaism is "Hashem", which means, quite simply, "The Name".

Another interesting quirk that might be fun to play with: Many Jews believe that written language is so powerful that they will not write G-d's name without omitting the middle letter, lest the Name ever be erased. (As you may have noticed, I am one of these people.)

For your work, you could probably develop "everyday" names, religious habits, or practices like these which people employ when talking to children about religion, or just casually mentioning it in conversation.


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pantros
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The easy way if to have the alien culture use the proper name or pick any elder, came before person-noun.

(Creator, Jake, Watcher, The Omni, etc...)


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Robert Nowall
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My reference materials are extremely disorganized and not handy...but "aslan," or "arslan," is the word for "lion" in Persian, I think.
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lehollis
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Good point, Jeraliey. Many peoples develop alternate references for their deity, out of a feeling that the name is quite sacred and should not be pronounced or written, sometimes it can only be spoken by a select few or in specific circumstances. (It reminds me of Voldemort of Harry Potter's world.)

I believe, in the ancient Judaistic writings, Jehovah's name written without the vowels to avoid writing it or pronouncing it, or something like that.


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ChrisOwens
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In ancient Hebrew, there were no vowels, just constantants. Therefore God's personal name was rendered YHWH. BTW, YHWH is found 6800+ times in the text, more than Elohim, El, Adoni (my spelling might be off).

The word for god, El, conveyed the idea of a powerful or mighty being, sometimes being applied to men, angels, false gods.

Elohim is a plural rendering, literaly Gods, which could refer to the assmebly of angels, the panthoen of false gods. Also it could refer to a singular god, its plural rendering conveying the plural of majesty.

Adoni was a titile meaning Lord, another term applied even to men.

YHWH is only ever used in reference to God Most High, God Almighty. Around the turn of the Common Era (2 BCE-1 CE) the use of the divine name was shunned as too holy to pronounce, and when vowel pointers started to be used, the vowels for Elohim and Adoni were inserted into the tetragramaton to remind the reader to say God or Lord instead.

In recent times, you can tell in some translations and versions of the Bible were the divine name was used, becaused YHWH is rendeder GOD or LORD in all caps, where El, Elohim and Adoni, is rendered God or Lord.

YHWH is sometimes rendered I AM, however, (and I am stretching my very meager knowledge of Hebrew) I believe based on the tense, it is closer to what we know as future tense in English. Therefore: I Will Be, is more accurate. Therefore YHWH could be rendered something like, 'He Causes To Become'. That is, as the Great Purposer, he becomes whatever the situation calls for to fulfill his convenents, Creator, Father, Savior, ect...

The divine name can be found in many Hebrew names. From instance Elijah means "YHWH is God", you can see the renderings within this name El (God), Jah (a shortened rendering of YHWH).

Jesus is a rendering of the name Joshua, which means, YHWH is Salvation. The title, Christ or Messiah, means Anointed One. There were many refered to as messiahs in ancient times, priests(like Aaron), kings(like David), prophets(like Moses), who were annointed to specific roles. Of course, the Hebrew scriptures all pointed to coming of THE Anointed One. In the Christian scriptures, those holy ones who are called to rule as kings and priest over mankind with Christ, are also anointed, and thus in a lesser sense messiahs.

Of course that really veered from the question at hand...

[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited December 09, 2005).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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One of the reasons for not saying a god's name out loud goes along with one of the reasons for not saying Voldemort's name out loud--by speaking the name, you are, in a way, invoking/calling to the god (or Voldemort) and he may hear you and come punish you for getting his attention/disturbing him by speaking his name, especially if you speak it "in vain" (meaning for no good reason).

There are other things that go along with this. For example, one of the reasons why it's not good to "curse" using the name of a god is that you are essentially commanding the god to do something that you have no right to command a god to do (so you're committing hubris). Either that or you are essentially saying that you have permission from the god to speak in the name of the god/as a representative of the god, when you really don't (which is also known as blasphemy).


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Jeraliey
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Off of ChrisOwens's post:

In prayer, when someone runs across the yood-hey-vav-hey (YHVH) construction, they automatically substitute "Adonai" in its place.

I actually never heard about the "Yaweh" thing until high school. It really threw me, and I thought my social studies book was yet another product of cultural misunderstanding (which happens more than most people like to believe). I even took it to my Rabbi, who explained the derivation, and why non-Jews list that as the name of the Jewish deity. Quite honestly, it still rings false to me whenever I see it referenced......

(Edited to remove unsolicited opinion)

[This message has been edited by Jeraliey (edited December 10, 2005).]


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Robert Nowall
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There's also the (probably mistaken or maybe deliberate) adding of the "adonai" vowel sounds to the vowel-less "YHWH," that produced, in Roman lettering, "Jehovah"...
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Cali
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In doing research for my own fantasy novel I ran across something in James Fasier's 'The Golden Bough.'

Stated plainly, there are many cultures that believe that if you know the true name of the person or being you had control of said being.

The Romany, or gypsies, each have three names. One is the name their mother whispers to the baby after birth. This is the name of the baby's soul, and highly sacred.

The next is the name they are called within the community proper, their gypsy name.

The Third is the name that they are called by outsiders, if they must deal with them.

You could have names like that for your god figures too. Sort of run with the saying 'All gods are one God.' Maybe only certian persons know the True Name of the being, but there is a penalty if they speak it aloud, like death.

I have a stucture like the Romany way in my novel. I also have two seperate cultures that make up the majority of the population in my story, so each has their own name for the four gods in the tale and their own stories and reasons for worship.


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sry
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Jeraliey wrote:
quote:

Another "name" for G-d that is often found in everyday Judaism is "Hashem", which means, quite simply, "The Name".


and lehollis added:
quote:

I believe, in the ancient Judaistic writings, Jehovah's name written without the vowels to avoid writing it or pronouncing it, or something like that.


and finally, ChrisOwens gave an extensive discussion on the (alleged) Hebrew language origins of various names and/or interpretations of the tetragram. I have no idea, Chris, if you are Jewish or not, from your discussion and I say alleged because I take various issues (not here) with several of your "facts."

I would note that Jeraliey touched on the most USEFUL idea for purposes of the ORIGINAL discussion. Many Jews, esp. the datim, observe a Commandment called "Chillul HaShem", which is a prohibition to either profane the Holy Name or to allow it to beCOME profaned through a long (rabbinical) list of ways in which it might be. One such way is to have the Holy Name written down on a paper (not a profanity of the Name yet) and have that paper used..let's say, as toilet paper (something thought of as negative, no?) Or just tossed in the street and stepped on as a piece of trash in the gutter (again, negative treatment of something considered Holy).

It's not the writing of the Holy Name onto the paper, nor is it the "power of print" so much as the fact that the Holy Name is considered (by these datim, religiously observant Jews) to be separate from the paper on which it is written and yet inseparable from the paper once it is written....therefore, the paper must be protected from profanity as the "vessel" for the Holy Name. It is the Name, not the paper nor the writing of it, which is Holy.

Chillul HaShem is extensive enough to refer to never even using the Name in casual conversation, hence people tend to just reflexively substitute "Hashem" as though it *were* a Name (there are 70 Holy Names for the Jewish G-d and they are variously male, female, singular, plural AND gender neutral...it's a *fascinating* study if you are truly interested and CAN read/understand Biblical Hebrew to read the ORIGINAL text and see what it says ;-)

The discussion asked how to name a god.

Well, look at the habits dati Jews have developed to avoid insulting their G-d.

They hold His Name sacred enough they are afraid of sullying it by using it in everyday life, they have a list of rules to follow guarding their speech and other forms of communication. They have 70 variations recorded in their Holy documents (the Torah) and yet there is only ONE held as so utterly Holy it is not even "named" (the tetragram, which others here are cavalierly discussing as "pronouncable" as "Yahweh" yet datim will NEVER condone such an assertion; it is not a "pronouncable by humans" sound; it is His Name).

This last bit is an extreme example of how a single concept--that a diety's name might be as holy and sacred as the diety itself--carried to the point of suggesting the breadth of "disparity" between this group's diety and themselves (G-d is *not* human and humans are *not* G-d and the phrase "in His image" has been discussed and debated by Jews for oh, about 3500 years now...we may get a decision before the new millenium) such that even the diety's name is not pronounceable by its worshippers.

Take some of these concepts and use them--the habits humans WILL form in order to interact with or avoid offending their diety--to form your own, alien religion and concept of observances/liturgy.

By the way, for context of my opinions, I am an American-Israeli Jew, not datia (not observant of the 613 Commandmants) but schooled until 10 in dati schools. I am completely secular by choice and STILL will not write G-d or L-rd without the dash. I routinely say "Hashem" instead. It's just at my core. And I LOVE and appreciate the chance to observe Kiddush HaShem (glorifying His Name by discussing it ... respectfully, of course ;)

Bottom line, your best bet -- as a human living in the real world we do with a MYRIAD of religions currently in practice -- is to study religions and figure out how humans choose to react to/interact with their diety/dieties. Then you'll know which facets appeal to the religious or spiritual spark within you for your creative description of an "alien" religion and its god or gods.

-sry

[This message has been edited by sry (edited December 13, 2005).]


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keldon02
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One could always sidestep the issue. Herbert did it very well in his Dune books.

Here is a link to Dune in one of the many cheater's guides online: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/dune/themes.html


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Jeraliey
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Lontzman!

Thanks for the neat analysis, sry! With your permission, I'd like to email you and discuss the issue a little further. (See if we can get the requisite three opinions )

I'm definitely learning some good stuff from this thread, both about others' views of G-d, my own, and others' views ABOUT my own.

scm, thanks for starting this thread.

[This message has been edited by Jeraliey (edited December 13, 2005).]


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Survivor
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I think it might be best to avoid going to any extremes.
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