posted
Nice Actually makes me aware of what I'm writing.
Here's my answers with the questions:
The Exam 1. Does nothing happen in the first fifty pages? Yes, something actually does happen. 2. Is your main character a young farmhand with mysterious parentage? No, he knows his father and he knows his mother. 3. Is your main character the heir to the throne but doesn't know it? Not to a throne, but a heir to a powerful legacy. 4. Is your story about a young character who comes of age, gains great power, and defeats the supreme badguy? Yes… 5. Is your story about a quest for a magical artifact that will save the world? No. 6. How about one that will destroy it? No. 7. Does your story revolve around an ancient prophecy about "The One" who will save the world and everybody and all the forces of good? Kind of. 8. Does your novel contain a character whose sole purpose is to show up at random plot points and dispense information? Don’t know right now. 9. Does your novel contain a character that is really a god in disguise? No, just normal people with rare weapon abilities. 10. Is the evil supreme badguy secretly the father of your main character? No. 11. Is the king of your world a kindly king duped by an evil magician? Yes, but not exactly a magician. 12. Does "a forgetful wizard" describe any of the characters in your novel? No. 13. How about "a powerful but slow and kind-hearted warrior"? Maybe, haven’t though about that one yet. 14. How about "a wise, mystical sage who refuses to give away plot details for his own personal, mysterious reasons"? Possibly. 15. Do the female characters in your novel spend a lot of time worrying about how they look, especially when the male main character is around? I don’t know, should I write one like that? 16. Do any of your female characters exist solely to be captured and rescued? Possible. 17. Do any of your female characters exist solely to embody feminist ideals? Maybe, I’m not sure just yet. 18. Would "a clumsy cooking wench more comfortable with a frying pan than a sword" aptly describe any of your female characters? Yes. 19. Would "a fearless warrioress more comfortable with a sword than a frying pan" aptly describe any of your female characters? Yes/ 20. Is any character in your novel best described as "a dour dwarf"? No. 21. How about "a half-elf torn between his human and elven heritage"? No. 22. Did you make the elves and the dwarves great friends, just to be different? I haven’t involved elves and dwarves in any story of mine. 23. Does everybody under four feet tall exist solely for comic relief? 24. Do you think that the only two uses for ships are fishing and piracy? No. 25. Do you not know when the hay baler was invented? No. 26. Did you draw a map for your novel which includes places named things like "The Blasted Lands" or "The Forest of Fear" or "The Desert of Desolation" or absolutely anything "of Doom"? No. 27. Does your novel contain a prologue that is impossible to understand until you've read the entire book, if even then? No. 28. Is this the first book in a planned trilogy? Depends if I get an idea for a sequel. 29. How about a quintet or a decalogue? No. 30. Is your novel thicker than a New York City phone book? Not yet, and doubt it will ever be. 31. Did absolutely nothing happen in the previous book you wrote, yet you figure you're still many sequels away from finishing your "story"? No. 32. Are you writing prequels to your as-yet-unfinished series of books? Not yet, doubt I ever will. 33. Is your name Robert Jordan and you lied like a dog to get this far? No. 34. Is your novel based on the adventures of your role-playing group? In one of my stories it is. 35. Does your novel contain characters transported from the real world to a fantasy realm? See above. 36. Do any of your main characters have apostrophes or dashes in their names? No. 37. Do any of your main characters have names longer than three syllables? Yes. 38. Do you see nothing wrong with having two characters from the same small isolated village being named "Tim Umber" and "Belthusalanthalus al'Grinsok"? I see something very wrong with it. 39. Does your novel contain orcs, elves, dwarves, or halflings? Not yet, doubt it wever will. 40. How about "orken" or "dwerrows"? No. 41. Do you have a race prefixed by "half-"? No. 42. At any point in your novel, do the main characters take a shortcut through ancient dwarven mines? No. 43. Do you write your battle scenes by playing them out in your favorite RPG? No, I imagine the battles in my head then try as best as I can to put the actions down on paper. 44. Have you done up game statistics for all of your main characters in your favorite RPG? No. 45. Are you writing a work-for-hire for Wizards of the Coast? No. 46. Do inns in your book exist solely so your main characters can have brawls? No, just a place to have a bloody battle. 47. Do you think you know how feudalism worked but really don't? I think so. 48. Do your characters spend an inordinate amount of time journeying from place to place? Don’t know, possibly will actually. 49. Could one of your main characters tell the other characters something that would really help them in their quest but refuses to do so just so it won't break the plot? Yes. 50. Do any of the magic users in your novel cast spells easily identifiable as "fireball" or "lightning bolt"? Not yet. 51. Do you ever use the term "mana" in your novel? Well, I can now. 52. Do you ever use the term "plate mail" in your novel? Not yet. 53. Heaven help you, do you ever use the term "hit points" in your novel? No, and never will. 54. Do you not realize how much gold actually weighs? Yes, I know how much it weighs. 55. Do you think horses can gallop all day long without rest? You’d have to be pretty stupid not to realise that horses can only gallop for a short amount of time. Horses can however trot for a few hours, but they will tire quickly. 56. Does anybody in your novel fight for two hours straight in full plate armor, then ride a horse for four hours, then delicately make love to a willing barmaid all in the same day? Hell no! 57. Does your main character have a magic axe, hammer, spear, or other weapon that returns to him when he throws it? No, just a powerful sword. 58. Does anybody in your novel ever stab anybody with a scimitar? No, as a scimitar is more of a slashing sword. 59. Does anybody in your novel stab anybody straight through plate armor? Only with a pike or spear. 60. Do you think swords weigh ten pounds or more? [info] Swords can weigh from 1lb to 15lbs. 61. Does your hero fall in love with an unattainable woman, whom he later attains? Yes. 62. Does a large portion of the humor in your novel consist of puns? No. 63. Is your hero able to withstand multiple blows from the fantasy equivalent of a ten pound sledge but is still threatened by a small woman with a dagger? No. 64. Do you really think it frequently takes more than one arrow in the chest to kill a man? Depends on where the arrow hits the man in the chest. 65. Do you not realize it takes hours to make a good stew, making it a poor choice for an "on the road" meal? Yes, I realise that, as roast of a hunt would actually fair better than a stew. 66. Do you have nomadic barbarians living on the tundra and consuming barrels and barrels of mead? Not nomadic, but yes, strong warriors, like sailors, who consume large quantities of mead. 67. Do you think that "mead" is just a fancy name for "beer"? Yes. 68. Does your story involve a number of different races, each of which has exactly one country, one ruler, and one religion? No. 69. Is the best organized and most numerous group of people in your world the thieves' guild? Not yet/ 70. Does your main villain punish insignificant mistakes with death? No, just sevre and mind boggling torture. 71. Is your story about a crack team of warriors that take along a bard who is useless in a fight, though he plays a mean lute? No. 72. Is "common" the official language of your world? Well, at the moment everyone speaks the same tongue, but with different accents and pronounciation, like between Australia and America. 73. Is the countryside in your novel littered with tombs and gravesites filled with ancient magical loot that nobody thought to steal centuries before? No, because I cannot be bothered to do something like that. 74. Is your book basically a rip-off of The Lord of the Rings? I wish it not to be. 75. Read that question again and answer truthfully.
Does nothing happen in the first fifty pages? Something happens very quickly.
Is your main character a young farmhand with mysterious parentage?
No.
Is your main character the heir to the throne but doesn't know it?
No.
Is your story about a young character who comes of age, gains great power, and defeats the supreme badguy?
No.
Is your story about a quest for a magical artifact that will save the world?
No.
How about one that will destroy it?
No.
Does your story revolve around an ancient prophecy about "The One" who will save the world and everybody and all the forces of good?
No.
Does your novel contain a character whose sole purpose is to show up at random plot points and dispense information?
No.
Does your novel contain a character that is really a god in disguise?
No.
Is the evil supreme badguy secretly the father of your main character?
No.
Is the king of your world a kindly king duped by an evil magician?
No.
Does "a forgetful wizard" describe any of the characters in your novel?
No.
How about "a powerful but slow and kind-hearted warrior"?
No.
How about "a wise, mystical sage who refuses to give away plot details for his own personal, mysterious reasons"?
No.
Do the female characters in your novel spend a lot of time worrying about how they look, especially when the male main character is around?
Female characters?
Do any of your female characters exist solely to be captured and rescued?
See above.
Do any of your female characters exist solely to embody feminist ideals?
See above.
Would "a clumsy cooking wench more comfortable with a frying pan than a sword" aptly describe any of your female characters?
See above.
Would "a fearless warrioress more comfortable with a sword than a frying pan" aptly describe any of your female characters?
See above.
Is any character in your novel best described as "a dour dwarf"?
No.
How about "a half-elf torn between his human and elven heritage"?
No.
Did you make the elves and the dwarves great friends, just to be different?
No.
Does everybody under four feet tall exist solely for comic relief?
No.
Do you think that the only two uses for ships are fishing and piracy?
No.
Do you not know when the hay baler was invented?
Not really.
Did you draw a map for your novel which includes places named things like "The Blasted Lands" or "The Forest of Fear" or "The Desert of Desolation" or absolutely anything "of Doom"?
Only 1 area has a name like that.
Does your novel contain a prologue that is impossible to understand until you've read the entire book, if even then?
No prologue.
Is this the first book in a planned trilogy?
Yes.
How about a quintet or a decalogue?
No.
Is your novel thicker than a New York City phone book?
No.
Did absolutely nothing happen in the previous book you wrote, yet you figure you're still many sequels away from finishing your "story"?
No.
Are you writing prequels to your as-yet-unfinished series of books?
No.
Is your name Robert Jordan and you lied like a dog to get this far?
No.
Is your novel based on the adventures of your role-playing group?
No.
Does your novel contain characters transported from the real world to a fantasy realm?
No.
Do any of your main characters have apostrophes or dashes in their names?
Only 1.
Do any of your main characters have names longer than three syllables?
No.
Do you see nothing wrong with having two characters from the same small isolated village being named "Tim Umber" and "Belthusalanthalus al'Grinsok"?
I see something wrong with that.
Does your novel contain orcs, elves, dwarves, or halflings?
I have a race like dwarves.
How about "orken" or "dwerrows"?
No.
Do you have a race prefixed by "half-"?
No.
At any point in your novel, do the main characters take a shortcut through ancient dwarven mines?
Maybe
Do you write your battle scenes by playing them out in your favorite RPG?
No.
Have you done up game statistics for all of your main characters in your favorite RPG?
No.
Are you writing a work-for-hire for Wizards of the Coast?
No.
Do inns in your book exist solely so your main characters can have brawls?
No.
Do you think you know how feudalism worked but really don't?
No.
Do your characters spend an inordinate amount of time journeying from place to place?
No.
Could one of your main characters tell the other characters something that would really help them in their quest but refuses to do so just so it won't break the plot?
No.
Do any of the magic users in your novel cast spells easily identifiable as "fireball" or "lightning bolt"?
Not really.
Do you ever use the term "mana" in your novel?
No.
Do you ever use the term "plate mail" in your novel?
No.
Heaven help you, do you ever use the term "hit points" in your novel?
No.
Do you not realize how much gold actually weighs?
Yes.
Do you think horses can gallop all day long without rest?
No.
Does anybody in your novel fight for two hours straight in full plate armor, then ride a horse for four hours, then delicately make love to a willing barmaid all in the same day?
No.
Does your main character have a magic axe, hammer, spear, or other weapon that returns to him when he throws it?
No.
Does anybody in your novel ever stab anybody with a scimitar?
No.
Does anybody in your novel stab anybody straight through plate armor?
No.
Do you think swords weigh ten pounds or more? [info]
No.
Does your hero fall in love with an unattainable woman, whom he later attains?
No.
Does a large portion of the humor in your novel consist of puns?
No.
Is your hero able to withstand multiple blows from the fantasy equivalent of a ten pound sledge but is still threatened by a small woman with a dagger?
No.
Do you really think it frequently takes more than one arrow in the chest to kill a man?
No.
Do you not realize it takes hours to make a good stew, making it a poor choice for an "on the road" meal?
I realize that.
Do you have nomadic barbarians living on the tundra and consuming barrels and barrels of mead?
No mead consuming.
Do you think that "mead" is just a fancy name for "beer"?
No.
Does your story involve a number of different races, each of which has exactly one country, one ruler, and one religion?
No.
Is the best organized and most numerous group of people in your world the thieves' guild?
No.
Does your main villain punish insignificant mistakes with death?
No.
Is your story about a crack team of warriors that take along a bard who is useless in a fight, though he plays a mean lute?
No.
Is "common" the official language of your world?
No.
Is the countryside in your novel littered with tombs and gravesites filled with ancient magical loot that nobody thought to steal centuries before?
No.
Is your book basically a rip-off of The Lord of the Rings?
Beer is produced by fermenting cereal sugars, usually barley.
Mead is produced by fermenting honey.
(For specifics see Wikipedia.)
Personally, I prefer mead. By the way, our word "honeymoon" comes from the fact that married couples would often have a month-long celebration after their marriage in which they would drink a lot of mead. Thus "honey" for the mead and "moon" for the month.
posted
Please, nobody else post their entire results.
Just any "yes" answers and why you think it's still okay.
And if (like me) you're tempted to write a novel with as many yes answers as possible for someone that is not Robert Jordan (or writing on contract), please don't post every "yes" answer, just say you're going to try and score the maximum amount.
posted
Hmm, well, there are some "yes" answers if I apply the quiz to my "Accidental Witch" two-parter - but most of those are precisely because I'm trying to subvert some of the fantasy cliches.
Is your story about a young character who comes of age, gains great power, and defeats the supreme badguy? A - That depends on how you define "the supreme badguy"...
Does your novel contain a character whose sole purpose is to show up at random plot points and dispense information? A - There is a character who does something like this, but they do it to deliberately manipulate the MC.
Does your novel contain a character that is really a god in disguise? A - In a manner of speaking, yes...
Is the evil supreme badguy secretly the father of your main character? A - Yes, in the sense that the MC is the (utterly unwitting) result of a deliberate long-term breeding program.
posted
As far as my serious writing goes, I say "no" to all the questions.
However, since Survivor brought it up, having a story that mostly says yes would make a brilliant satire. The first question is the only one that's hard to pull off: does nothing happen for the first fifty pages? The only way I can see to pull that off (without being Robert Jordan) is simple honesty, and leave the first fifty pages blank.
posted
"Do any of your female characters exist solely to embody feminist ideals?"
I've yet to read a fantasy novel that actually does this. Of course, it's been quite some time since I last picked up a fantasy book; but I used to read quite a lot of it.
posted
I guess since my current work is scifi not fantasy, then the test doesn't apply. I can say I have read at least one or two books that use the specified question...except for the Robert Jordon question, I haven't read any of his books.
I guess once you see it laid out in that form it is easier to see how overused some of the ideas are.
posted
LOL! I was reading through those questions and each time my mind drifted to The Wheel of Time thinking...my that would fit him perfectly. Then I hit question 33 and just bust out laughing.
But of course, they all apply to so much more than just him. I'm rather sick of typical fantasy as well. Alvin Maker has been a nice break from that classic rip off stuff.
posted
And what's the deal with the swords? They usually made for the wielder and if they need to weigh ten pounds, then so be it. The sword size, shape, weight,etc. depends on the height and weight of the person using it.
Posts: 341 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Well, I don't know when the hay baler was invented, and I'm apt to use the term "hit points" just to be contrary.
But. . . OK, some of us like medeival fantasy. In my writing class, over half of us are trying to write medeival fantasy novels. The author's got a point. LotR was done. Let's do something else.
Best medieval fantasy I can think of, other than LotR, is the Riddlemaster series. On behalf of Patricia McKillip, I took the test again, for serious effect.
Yeses:
One question I won't reveal, for fear of spoilers; and
4. Is your story about a young character who comes of age, gains great power, and defeats the supreme badguy? (Morgon)
28. Is this the first book in a planned trilogy? (Riddlemaster of Hed, Heir of Sea and Fire, Harpist in the Wind)
37. Do any of your main characters have names longer than three syllables? ("Ghisteslwchlohm")
48. Do your characters spend an inordinate amount of time journeying from place to place? (the whole realm)
posted
Your full on Scottish claymore might weigh in at eight pounds, but it wasn't intended for sword fighting. It was a reusable initial strike weapon designed to be used once during the first charge and then discarded till the battle was over. In shorter words, you ran in and chopped down one guy with it, then you left it in the unlucky fellow and pulled out something you could actually wield. Why they bothered making it look like a sword at all is more a question of Gaelic mass psychology than anything else.
I've pointed out before that you can stab right through full plate if you've got the right weapon and the strength for the job. If that's what's being addressed with the point about plate having joints, then so be it, but it was generally wiser to carry a weapon that could go right through the stuff than to muck about looking for a joint (if you had the option of doing whichever you preferred, of course--I suppose that after the fight starts your stuck with what you brought with you).
Okay, so I agree that 1, 31, 47, 55-6, and 60 are all probably real "if you answer this yes, you have a problem" issues. The others are warning signs, but I would accept any of them under the right circumstances. Really, it's clear that the list is written by people that are sick to death of the entire fantasy genre. Which is fine, but they aren't going to read fantasy no matter how it is written. So I don't think they deserve much of a vote in the matter.
posted
I think that you can start worrying if you have answered the questions Survivor pointed out, and also if you've answered more than, say, fifteen of them with a "yes". But one or two yeses probably don't mean much.
It's a very tongue-in-cheek test anyway. David Parker, one of the creators of the test discusses it on Ellen Kushner's blog here (you have to scroll down, it's near the middle of the page and it's one of the largest comments typed.
wbriggs, the hay baler is a nineteenth century invention. That, I suspect, is one of the reasons why many Impressionist painters depicted bales of hay in fields, for the sheer novelty effect.
I took it, and for the record, the only ones to which I've answered "yes" are #8: "is one of your characters a god in disguise?" sort of. He's very long-lived and has strange powers, but he can definitely be killed, and he doesn't have any worshippers to speak of. #48: half my cast spends time getting from point A to point B, and then back to point A (on foot).
Edited because once again I keep confusing UBB and html tags.
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited March 25, 2006).]
posted
I agree with Survivor on the point that these people wouldn't read another fantasy novel. It seems to me sort of like getting a critique from someone who just doesn't get into you style or writing or genre.
We are writers. We cannot be put into a box. We can write drivel if people prefer, but most of the time, I anyway, write what I like and what interests me. One day, someone else will find it interesting as well.
posted
I haven't the heart to go through and answer each question. Mercifully, my one completed fantasy novel did not resemble "Lord of the Rings"...unmercifully, it resembled "Gormenghast" with dragons thrown in...more unmercifully, it was very, very bad for other reasons.
Still, practically every question sings: "AVOID THIS!" in English and Elvish both.
posted
I both agree and siagree with Survivor's point on people who are sick of the fantasy genre. As a disgruntled fantasy reader myself I can honestly say that I still have an eye out for fully non-cliched works that really stretch the edge of the genre. On the other hand, I know that Tokien rip offs still sell and will continue to sell so long as people like some of the friends I have never grow up and continue to enjoy role-playing games.
I like Card's Alvin Maker series. The combination of magic and alternate history really worked for me.
I myself write contemporary fantasy when I tackle the genre -- urban fantasy or modern realism depending upon my mood. These sub-genres also have their cliches but they are not written for little boys so at least I'm in their target audience.
Did I mention that I think Tokienesque fantasy is written for boys and young men?
quote:Did I mention that I think Tokienesque fantasy is written for boys and young men?
lool That might explain why I could never grow into the concept of "the mighty hero who saves the world by defeating hordes of monsters all by himself"...Of course, nobody in the Tolkienesque genre is interested in someone who merely wants to raise children in the best way possible. Somehow not as interesting as slaughtering orcs.
posted
I don't see the relevance of the date when hay balers were invented. The reason it's called a hay baler rather than a hay "baller" is because the practice of baling hay goes back thousands of years. It used to take more work, and the bale of hay you ended up with made a good lodging for vagrents and vermin if you left it out too long, but that's just more spice for your fantasy novel.
It's even quite handy, considering that most fantasy heroes are vagrents (rather than your salt of the earth types). Of course, it only makes sense to have at least some motherly types who would be, how do you say, "more comfortable weilding a frying pan than a sword."
I just have to say that, though I haven't hated any of the Alvin Maker books I've read, I haven't troubled myself to read all of them, or even all the ones that have been lying near at hand when I was bored. I don't know why.
posted
Survivor, I think the authors of the text are criticizing a bad habit (especially derived from medieval reconstructionist fairs) of having characters seat on bales of hay. That presumes your bale is quite compact, which is impossible to do without machines.
I'm not sure I follow you on bale usage. According to my Oxford Dictionary of English, "bale" means a compressed, compact bundle of hay. It has to be made by a machine because there isn't another way to compress hay than applying enormous mechanical pressure. In the centuries before the invention of the hay-baler, there were no bales. People did gather hay by hand into superstucture for storage, but they were called bundles. They were sort of hemispheric, and yes, vagrants often slept in them. But they were not as compact as the bales of hay you can see around today.
posted
I can honestly say, if you start your fantasy novel and use the word 'epic' as a description, I doubt I would read it. We have enough epics to last two lifetimes, why not just a interesting fantasy that will use a plotline that doesn't involve the end of the world. I do believe we had a discusion about fantasy and end of the world plots a while ago....
Be original, be unique...spare us from another epic trillogy.
I wish I could find the list of Things I Learned from Television. Some parts:
* A woman is warm enough in shorts and a halter top, even on a glacier. (In Alien v. Predator, the heroine did have a light, tight-fitting sweater, in Antarctica.)
* If someone's just died, do CPR. You need someone around to try to stop you and say, in tears, "He's gone!" so you can brush her off and then try again, and when you give up, he'll wake up coughing.
* When men and women share a bed, the sheet is longer on the woman's side than the man's, so his chest can be visible and hers covered.
* Interesting people can walk through a field of flying bullets and not be hit.
* Never wear a red shirt.
* Every family leaves one side of the table completely empty at mealtime.
* A 100-lb woman has no problem slugging and knocking out a 200-lb karate expert, if he deserves it.
* Everyone talking on the phone repeats everything the other party says. Example: Caller: "I'm coming over." Callee: "You're coming over?" Caller: "I have big news." Callee: "You have big news?" Caller: "I'll be there in an hour." Callee: "You'll be here in an hour."
* Every type of scientist, from botanist to astrophysicist, knows how to diagnose diseases and set broken bones.
* No married woman has a sense of humor, and no married man has any sense at all.
* The frequency of sex with strangers has no correlation with STD's.
* Married people never have sex. Single people have it all the time.
posted
"* Every family leaves one side of the table completely empty at mealtime."
Veeery convient, yes? Funny though...
I thought that this "exam" highlighted a lot of the things I find very annoying with the fantasy genre (yes I know if you don't like it, don't read it- but I DO love fantasy, if those things are left out.) The biggest one for me is probably, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE, NO MORE DWARVES, ELVES ect... but especially dwarves. For me, personally, that is when a story gets dropped (or put back on the bookshelf in disgust), when they introduce that character. But there were also some things on there that I disagreed with, such as the one about the chosen one (i'm paraphrasing here, of course.) I rather like stories about some special, or extraordinariy person who is talked about in prophecies, or in hushed tones or whatever... But I suppose it is all about personal preference isn't it? (once past the editors desk of course)- some people just might like some of that crap... who knows...
posted
Peronally, I don't mind the the insertion of other races such as Dwarves or Elves. You just have to be creative and try to stay away from cliche. This is true of any element of any story you create.
I would think that a race of sea-fairing dwarves might be interesting. Or perhaps a race of elves that live in the high mountains and keep aeries of great condor-like birds to fly around on. Although, I believe that these may have been done, it isn't by any means overdone. Most dwarves are miners and most elves are forest-folk. Just don't do the expected and you can make it new.
Anything that you do in any story you create has to have a purpose and fit into the eco-system of that world. If it is plausable and you do it right, it can be believable. Any typical fantasy element can be overdone and cliche. Dragons, wizards, magic, various races, Dieties, quests, and on and on...
It is our job as creative writers to make new things, or make all of these cliche's new again. If you can do that with every story you create, you will have something.
Everyone reads a story for a different reason. Some people like dragons, some like dwarves and elves. But I know a fair share of people that don't like either of these elements in the fantasy stories they read. I think that in fantasy, there is no blanket statement to disregard any of these "cliche's". Inherently they are all a part of fantasy. You just have to do them very well and use them with a flair that very few have done before.
Some of this is stating the obvious, but this is just my view on the tongue-in-cheek test and some of the comments above.
posted
Addendum: I said my one completed fantasy novel resembled "Gormenghast" more than "The Lord of the Rings." Belatedly, after posting that comment and logging off for the day, I recalled that said novel was partially titled "The Lord of the..." so I guess I was influenced by Tolkien after all. Why I never changed it...well, I was a lot younger then and (unfortunately) a lot less savvy. I'd hope I could pick up on something like that if it happened in these days...
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
"Everyone reads a story for a different reason. Some people like dragons, some like dwarves and elves. But I know a fair share of people that don't like either of these elements in the fantasy stories they read. I think that in fantasy, there is no blanket statement to disregard any of these "cliche's". Inherently they are all a part of fantasy. You just have to do them very well and use them with a flair that very few have done before."
posted
If you are writing in a dungeons and dragons precreated world, then the races and the way they are expected to behave are predefined.
Now, other than that, why don't people create thier own races and monsters? I watch these conversations and it really makes me wonder how many people think true creativity is to find a different story for the same elements that everyone is used to. I can't understand why scifi has less of a boundary issue (primarily believability) while fantasy seems to only allow one type of story. I just don't buy that line. I think I'll continue to believe that it's the fault of the writer to not try to be more creative and find thier own story outside of repetition. For those who think there is not such possible stories, pick up some of the earlier andre norton fantasies...she didn't seem to need the same world ending formula in every story.
You don't have to agree with me, but I no longer buy any new books that are described as 'epic'.
posted
Well, based on what Lord Darkstorm just said, we have to give at least some creadit to Robert Jordan seeing that he at least attempted to make his own creatures...even if the Trollocs were practically variations on orcs.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
To be fair, everything that is bipedal, ugly, smelly, and likes to eat manflesh is going to be a variation on Orcs one way or another.
As for families leaving one side of the table open at meal times...who doesn't?
As for baling hay, that's when you roll it into a big ball (if you're doing it by hand). A bundle of hay would be when you make something more like a sheaf (of grain) only it's just hay. I'm sure that if your medival milieu is full of modern style bales complete with baling wire (or plastic equivalent) then you need a history lesson. But as long as you represent hand rolled bales of hay rather than square lumps tied with baling wire, I don't see that you need to know when the hay baler was invented.
posted
Your assignment now, is to write a story including all the items in the novelist's writing exam, and make it work. Posts: 1008 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
"...everything that is bipedal, ugly, smelly, and likes to eat manflesh..." That could be anybody!
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
"Your assignment now, is to write a story including all the items in the novelist's writing exam, and make it work. "
Okay. I would like to see that.
wait a min. scratch that. I would like to HEAR about it.
On a personal note - I actually love to read apocalyptic stories... where the world is going to end, or is ending. Those are my fave, so naturally, I will have something similar to that in some (but please god, not every) story that I write. Its all a matter of personal preference, as Im sure someone mentioned earlier.
If you like to read about crazy wizards, medieval-like settings, or trolls and orcs... you are probably, most likely, going to eventually write about them.
posted
4. Is your story about a young character who comes of age, gains great power, and defeats the supreme badguy? A-- Sort of. He's already "of age", he doesn't gain power, he just remembers he had it, and there is no "supreme badguy".
19. Would "a fearless warrioress more comfortable with a sword than a frying pan" aptly describe any of your female characters? A-- Uh . . .
39. Does your novel contain orcs, elves, dwarves, or halflings? A-- Not anymore . . . *grin*
48. Do your characters spend an inordinate amount of time journeying from place to place? A-- Well, the whole story is about one long trip, with detours and distractions along the way.
The more I think about it, the more I fear that my WIP (3 years and counting) is nothing more than one long list of cliches and bad characterization.
Hm. What must it feel like not to be paralized by fear and self-doubt?
[This message has been edited by cvgurau (edited March 29, 2006).]
posted
Cvgurau, Milieu storys are all about things like long journeys. Don't take the exam too seriously. The general idea is to not make your work a nock-off of the LOTR.
Posts: 19 | Registered: Mar 2006
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1. Does nothing happen in the first fifty pages? -No, I'm lucky if I make it more than 10-15 pages without some sort of action starting.
6. How about one that will destroy it? -Tempting, but no.
28. Is this the first book in a planned trilogy? -Depends on the idea. I like writing stories that can stand on their own, but stays open to more by the same character. Nothing like the WoT though.
42. At any point in your novel, do the main characters take a shortcut through ancient dwarven mines? -No, because the dwarves would still be there in my book ... because dwarves rule!
55. Do you think horses can gallop all day long without rest? -No ... unless it's an magical horsie.
59. Does anybody in your novel stab anybody straight through plate armor? -Only if he's carrying a magical sword. And still that character has to be big and buff and mean to pull it off.
60. Do you think swords weigh ten pounds or more? [info] -Depends on the sword. While the common sword didn't weigh over 10-15 pounds (too much metal, too heavy to lift over and over again), there were specialty swords that weighed more. But those were rarely used for regular battle.
64. Do you really think it frequently takes more than one arrow in the chest to kill a man? -No. The shock alone would disable or kill the average soldier, even if it didn't stick in the heart or enter the lungs (which would fill the lungs with blood and you would essentially drown in your own blood ... ew).
I think I did pretty well. Mainly becuase I decided long ago that would not write standard Tolkien'esque fantasy, unlike some authors *coughERAGONcough*.
PS - wbriggs, you forgot one of the great rules of TV/movies: It doesn't matter what weapon you use to kill a vampire, as long as you look cool doing it!
Jammrock
[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 07, 2006).]
posted
I said only post your "yes" answers! Also, several of your "yes" answers contain explanation that seems to indicate you should have answered "no". Curse those fools for their double and triple negative phrasings.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I don't see a moderator ranking under your handle. You can't tell me what to do! FREEEDDOOOOOOMM!!!
[grins sinisterly ... if that's even a word]
I over analyze questions too much. Plus I like being a smart #$* from time to time, and I felt some of my replies were in good humor with the exam. In all honestly, I only answered yes to 2-3 questions, because I stand firmly by my motto, "I will write no Tolkeinesque fantasy."
Jammrock
PS - I did edit down my post to only handful of responses
[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 07, 2006).]
posted
Oh, I most certainly can tell you what to do. I just leave it up to you to actually do it.
You actually didn't analyse the questions enough for my tastes, particularly by means of cross-referencing with the implications of other questions, for instance the meta question of whether the test designers really meant to imply that all women should have equal facility with frying pan and sword, or whether they thought hard about the implications of suggesting that armor is invincible to hand weapons but will always be penetrated by any projectile weapon, no matter how primative. An arrow (or bullet) that is fine for killing birds or rabbits will have little appreciable effect on an adrenalized human warrior, after all. There are dozens of interesting contradictions like that in the list of questions, as well as many questions that are based on entirely flawed assumptions (for instance, the assumption that most bows in medival times would have been designed for killing men rather than quail, or that dwarves would never consider the possible advantages of having a shortcut for their own use).
Not that I want anyone to go pointing out all the flaws in the test, I counted an average of about four critical flaws per question, many of which could be discussed at some length. I contented myself with pointing out the flaw in the test overall, namely that the people who wrote it are simply tired of reading this genre entirely, and therefore do not represent its fan base.
posted
Tsk tsk tsk. Assuming that my mood has anything to do with my posting style (or content), that's such a human error. All the same, I thought my post was rather fun, if it comes to that. I would have found a charge of being facetious much more plausible, though still easily refuted.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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