posted
Okay, so you've got a bunch of critiques on your WIP or short story... now what? I'm having a devil of a time sorting through it all, so I thought I'd ask and see how other people dealt with it.
I've read you should go through it and see what resonates with you, and change those things. Well, to a certain extent I've lost sense of what resonates to me. Esp. the beginning of my WIP, I've tried so many openings, none of which seem to resonate with me, and which have gotten a huge variety of reactions from people--some think it's great, others not so much. I wish I had a better sense of it one way or another, but right now, I just feel kind of lost. I know something's not right, but the feedback I get doesn't particularly resonate one way or the other, it's just confusing me even more.
What to do?
A related question... when do you decide it's as good as you can make it and send it out? Obviously, it's never going to please everyone.
posted
I have very similar problems. And the point you're at is when I tend to go, ok time to send it out and see what an editor says. There always comes a point when I just can't see whether I'm improving it or making it worse. Once you are sure there are no outright errors, if your readers aren't honing in on one particular thing maybe it's time to let go of it.
I am at a similar point in my NiP (now in the late editing stage). I frankly have come to the point where I absolutely hate my first 3 chapters. I can't stand to look at them. If I did, I might just delete them. And these for the most part got glowing comments from my readers. (There is always an exception or two to keep you humble though )
If you're not sure you're improving it, I'd send it out or at least give it a rest for a few months.
posted
I think we have all been there. The problem seems to be that you become so wrapped up, so concerned with the story and writing it that you begin to suffer "critical fatigue". You lose perspective and nothing seems right and even if it is you are not sure that it is. Why not put it aside for at least a few weeks - just forget it - even work on something else. Don't think about it. During this time your subconscious will be sorting it all out - you will come back with a new, revitalized perspective and you may even be surprised the "answer" (the way to write the scene) will suddenly seemingly come out of nowhere. This works for me and I've heard from others it works for them also.
When it is good enough - you'll know it. You get a real sense of excitement - a rush of motivation and you can't wait to write out the scene/story. If it excites you and makes you feel something deeply - whatever the emotion - you've got it right.
posted
How to process critiques? Like anything in the creative process, there is no one right answer.
If there is a common message that develops among the critiquers, about a scene, a character, a particular plot point, a lack of clarity or misunderstanding, boredom, style issue--then it becomes rather easy to spot a trend and remedy the problem.
Sometimes the feedback does not address the real problem, but rather is indicative that there is a problem. It can amount to reading tea leaves. Leaving it to the subconscious, as said above, works wonders. Take a creative break. Work on something else. Critique stories to learn what works and what doesn't. Then come back to it. Often, one can find an angle of attack that revolutionizes the whole thing.
For some of us, it never feels ready. After a few drafts and revisions there is a point where you just have to tell your internal editor "This is it!" and send it out. No--it's never good to keep critiquing the same story over and over again until you get all thumbs up.
It all goes back to Heinlein's Rules, particularly rules 2-4: (2) Finish What Your Start. (3) You Must Refrain From Rewriting. (4) You Must Put Your Story on the Market.
posted
An acquaintance of mine who is a poet told me once that poems (for us, stories) are never finished, merely given up (to the marketplace) in despair.
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posted
I usually send out the first draft for critique. If there are major weaknesses, they show up then. On the first read of the critique, I think WTF, are you blind??? On second read, I think, I'll never do this right. Usually--though sometimes not--with every critique. And then I:
quote: ...put it aside for at least a few weeks - just forget it - even work on something else. Don't think about it. During this time your subconscious will be sorting it all out - you will come back with a new, revitalized perspective ...
Then I reread the critiques and reevalute what they are focusing on:
quote: If there is a common message that develops among the critiquers, about a scene, a character, a particular plot point, a lack of clarity or misunderstanding, boredom, style issue--then it becomes rather easy to spot a trend and remedy the problem.
Once I clean them up, I do a last spell check, and they're off. I believed in it enough to write it, to give a fair polish after it has cooled, so I don't think about them again until they get a reply. (Usually a rejection.)
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited November 10, 2007).]
posted
Sadly, it is never as good as you can make it. Don't let that get to you, though. Challenge yourself to find a published piece by anyone that is perfect. If you don't want to spend your entire life perfecting one story:
Work out the issues that seem to show up in several critiques, then address any others that ring true to you (remember - it is your story), without taking apart the heart of your story. Then send it out.
posted
I personally take a printout of the story in its final version on my computer, and then look at all the crits and mark up my copy with pen. While I'm doing this, I get plenty of ideas and I mark them into the page too. I limit myself to doing this on paper with ink because I feel like then I can really truly SEE the changes, does that make any sense? Sometimes when I get into heavy edits on the computer I change one thing back and forth so many times I don't know which end is up anymore.
So on paper, it's easier to see it, and in some cases what I need to do to the story pops right out at me.
Other times, I spend some time re-reading notes from writing books I've read. I get some kind of how-to tip that seems like it might work for the WIP and I put it in the back of my mind, then enter that pen/paper editing phase and try to fix things.
Sometimes I clean it up (with my pen/paper process) and then send it to that 1-2 readers who I hope might be able to help unstick me. If it's a case of a few alternate beginnings, I can try each of them on my very small number of close readers who can help with this. I find that I am still in search of the perfect match with close readers, but I've got a group to choose from that I can try (some Hatrackers among them, of course.) When I'm in this mode, I find I need the feedback pretty quickly, so I can FINISH, so sometimes it's luck of the draw on who had the availabile time.
Have you read OSC's article about beginnings yet? Have I pestered you with it? It's one of those articles that I just love (really resonates with me, LOL) and I suggest it to everyone who seems to be having trouble with the early part of a story. Fascinating. I think the ultimate point from the article is, maybe you aren't starting the story in the right place/right person/at the right depth yet. Maybe you haven't quite found the start yet. That doesn't have to kill the story, just try to find the place that is the right place to start. http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/1998-10-29.shtml
posted
You can't listen to all the voices. Pick several whose comments you have respected in the past and then pay attention to what they say. Disregard the rest. Sometimes there seems to be a pack mentality and your story becomes the freshest kill. If you already have an idea of who to listen to, you won't be destroyed by the frenzy.
[This message has been edited by palmon (edited November 11, 2007).]
quote:Sometimes there seems to be a pack mentality and your story becomes the freshest kill. If you already have an idea of who to listen to, you won't be destroyed by the frenzy.
An awesome, if brutal, analogy! lol.
I'm not sure I agree with Heinlein's rule: You must refrain from rewriting. Maybe if my first draft were better, but my first drafts are pretty rough. Esp of my WIP. Characters pop out of nowhere or act irrationally, concepts come and go, threads get dropped. This is because in the first draft, I'm still trying to figure things out. Esp with this WIP, which I wrote on the fly and over multiple years. All of these things need to be fixed, and need to be rewritten.
KayTi, thanks for pointing out OSC's article. I read it a while ago and reread it. It's true, I don't have the right beginning, i just don't know what the right beginning is, so I keep trying on different ones.
IB, I admire your process. I think you might be on to something there. Tinkering with things forever means you just don't put things out there. Maybe it's better to get the conveyor belt moving faster.
Maybe I'm having separation issues? This WIP is my baby, my first novel, and one which, for many reasons, resonates with me. Consequently, I want it to be perfect. It's also incredibly complicated--lots of emotions and politics involved, so it's hard just pulling all the plot threads together. I've let it sit now for 6 months, but found i just couldn't let it go, so I started tinkering with it again. Maybe I need to be more aggressive about letting it go, and then come back to it.
posted
I have a hard time working on more than one project at a time. When I hear the advice of "put it aside for a while" it's a problem because I don't think of anything but the current piece. I could make myself write something throwaway I guess, but I don't know what good that would be. I haven't been able to grab onto the volume idea (good month to discuss this with NaNo going on...)
Instead, all I can do to gain perspective is fill my writing tank to overflowing. I watch old DVDs of my favorite shows (many of which were remastered with writer commentary!), reread old novels and as others have said, favorite books about writing.
Heinlien's rules do seem strange on first hearing, but he did not mean to write a rough draft and send it out. A second or third draft will likely be beneficial, as will a few rounds of proofreading. None of this is what he meant by not rewriting.
Note what Robert Sawyer explained in the link:
[Perhaps a more appropriate wording would have been, "Don't tinker endlessly with your story." You can spend forever modifying, revising, and polishing. There's an old saying that stories are never finished, only abandoned — learn to abandon yours.
If you find your current revisions amount to restoring the work to the way it was at an earlier stage, then it's time to push the baby out of the nest.]
[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited November 11, 2007).]
posted
One thing I have come to realize is that you have to be picky in who you listen to on critiques. Having too many can be overwhelming. I've been there. I now limit my critiques to those from a very few people I thoroughly trust. This helps, but I still at times just reach a point of total burnout in the editing process.
I have to agree with Heinlein not that you shouldn't do any editing at all but that you have to limit it. Obviously, most of us have to make sure that what we wanted to say actually came through. But then we have to accept that it will never be perfect--not even our beloved baby.
posted
Dean Wesley Smith says to send out your story before it's critiqued and use the comments on your next project.
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quote:One thing I have come to realize is that you have to be picky in who you listen to on critiques.
I agree. And I think it's something of a fine balance, too. Too many can just muddle the work. Too few, might not be enough--but I feel even just two can be plenty. You also have to be careful you're not trusting the wrong people--but that's a personal choice.
posted
I've learned from critiques, but I think that more than three or four critiques are overkill, which is why I usually don't critique a first 13 that already has three or four responses, unless I have an insight that the other posters missed.
I also don't send a story out until I think I've got it right. Then, the critiques touch on points I was blind to, and are really helpful.
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