For instance, this paragraph includes a piece of internal dialogue that has me scratching my head: She wondered what idiot would go up to such a grim place late at night. Well, one like her--and perhaps one other. Her lips curved in a smile.

That "one like her" could easily look like an authorial intrusion but it's actually internal dialogue. So I'll put it in italics to show that. But that leaves the question (I SWEAR I used to know this) since it is dialogue maybe the her should be me... after all I'm quoting her thoughts. Blech.

And this this paragraph: The hint of pressure behind her made her shiver. At last, he was here.

The "at last he was here" is internal dialogue. At first, the was seemed right. Then I started thinking that if it were external dialogue I would make it present tense so maybe I should in internal.

So I've managed to either get confused or confuse myself. I tend to write in such close 3rd that it is sometimes hard for me to tell when I've slipped into internal dialogue and that doesn't help. LOL

If a writer doesn't have a copy of Chicago, thirty-day trialware access to the online version is available. My copy came with a year's free access to the site, but has long since expired. An annual subscription costs $30.

The second bit seems fine in and of itself - it feels less like internal dialogue and more like simple narration from your MC's POV. If you want to turn it into internal dialogue, you could once again add some attribution to let your reader know this is an internal thought. Cumbersome attribution should be avoided, but a simple she thought isn't cumbersome, in my books.

That would make your lines look something like this...

1. She wondered what idiot would go up to such a grim place late at night. One like me, she thought--and perhaps one other. Her lips curved in a smile.
2. The hint of pressure behind her made her shiver. At last, she thought, he was here.

On second thought, that first one looks awkward with attribution and the em-dash in there. I dunno.... maybe I'd reword and keep the attribution, but that's your call.

First, I would think. She would be saying/thinking-Well, one like me--and perhaps one other. Also, if it were me thinking it, I probably would smile before I thought it or as I thought it.

Second, At least he's here.

My thoughts anyways

The other issues are a bit more difficult.

I think two terms in the first excerpt obviate the need for italics. "Wondered," when judiciously used, is nearly as invisible as a said attribution and explicitly states that the following passage is internal monologue. "Well," including the comma, is a discourse marker that does the same work, though it's not as commonly invisible as an occasional "wondered."

On the other hand, the sentence "Well, one like her--and perhaps one other." is faltering discourse. Chicago recommends an ellipsis rather than a dashed interruption for faltering discourse.

My concern is with tense and person. There I am much less sure on the best usage.

Edit: The ellipsis vs em dash debate isn't one I want to get into here. Suffice it to say, I prefer an em dash for pauses which is stylistically acceptable.

1. She wondered what idiot would go up to such a grim place late at night. Well, one like me--and perhaps one other. Her lips curved in a smile.

In my opinion, this is simply worded awkwardly with the em-dash, but italics will work just fine. Should be "me" though, for actual dialigue and not narration. Maybe replace the dash with a simple comma? Or a full stop? I get the rhythm you're trying to impart here, and maybe there isn't a better way to do this without resorting to Dr. extrinsic's Legal List of Legible Literary Laws. Still, it's your baby, and rewording would simply be my taste vs. yours. It's technically fine the way it is.

2. The hint of pressure behind her made her shiver. At last, he's here.

Changed the tense in what she would actually be saying, since she wouldn't use past tense (was) to speak about something currently occuring (is)

Does this look/feel better?

Jayson Merryfield

I'm confused.

Edit: Yes, I do like that wording. Wording stays.

quote:

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It seems to me if she wouldn't "say" was, she wouldn't think of herself as "her" either. *scratches head*

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Maybe I am also confused. Is she also the narrator? I was under the impression that this was third person narration, in which case the narrator would refer to your MC in the third person, hence her. However, when you transfer to dialogue, regardless of whether it is internal or not, attributed or not, the person speaking would refer to themself in first person, hence me.

The was thing is simply tense related, specifically when talking about dialogue. When I walk into the Hatrack Cafe, people might say to themselves, "Hey, Wolfe is here." Not "Wolfe was here," because, well, I am here, right now, according to their POV. If I had been there in the past, they might see a sign scribbled into a tabletop that said "Wolfe was here," and then there would be janitor's fists' shaken at me.

Clear as mud?

Jayson Merryfield

I frequently give internal dialogue of my PoV character in the narrative.

To let you know what brought this up, I got back a submission to a pro pub with comments from the editor saying that my "internal dialogue" that I quoted was a break in PoV because it was an authorial intrusion. (Although I sometimes do use italics, I hadn't in that case.) I went: huh? I didn't feel that I needed to change tense or case in close limited 3rd. By assumption it is all from the character's PoV. The editor didn't see it that way.

Now I'm confused.

Edit: Kathleen, would you ring in here? How do you do this kind of thing?

Let's take another that I'll make up on the spot (It'll probably be weak so bear with me)

She crouched behind the building, sword in hand. Marshif dashed toward her. Damn it. She thought he was dead.

Hmmm sounds like an interesting story. wonder where that came from?

Anyhoo... if I am using that as "internal dialogue" should I say I thought he was dead? Actually for me it works fine as she but coming right after the damn it which is definitely internal dialogue I might want to consider that a quote from her thoughts. Should the Damn it be italics? *scratches head and wonders if all this writing has given her lice or just brain damage*

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited June 13, 2008).]

quote:

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She wondered what idiot would go up to such a grim place late at night. Well, one like her--her lips curved in a smile--and perhaps one other.

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I think it is just about shifting it about and making the smiling bit the tag for the thoughts. It differentiates the thoughts from the action and makes them obvious.

quote:

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The hint of pressure behind her made her shiver--he was here at last.

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quote:

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She crouched behind the building, sword in hand. Marshif dashed toward her. Damn it--she thought he was dead.

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I am a great fan of the dash.

I don't think in these instances you should be using me or the present tense. I personally think it is just an issue of structure. Creating the right structure sets apart the thoughts and makes it obvious to the reader of the slight change.

Anyway the above is how I would do it and it would make sense to me if I read it.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited June 13, 2008).]

I pretty much have my mind straight on this whole issue. The editor just threw me with her objection. I went back to Self-Editing for the Fiction Writer which has an excellent chapter on the subject.

I think I'll stick to third person in those. Although first would be correct, I would probably signal it with a separate paragraph. Because I am already writing from her PoV, I think very few would object as that particular editor did. Some pubs have their own viewpoints. *shrug*