http://deanwesleysmith.com/mt/archives/cat_blog.html#000178

The basic idea is that he and his writer group (it eventually grew much larger.) started tracking their submissions. Their system worked like this:

1pt - Short story in the mail
3pt - Novel proposal or chapters and outline in the mail
8pt - Full novel manuscript in the mail

You get no points for simultaneous submissions.

They posted their results in a little weekly mini-mag that DWS put together and it ran for about 80 weeks.

What he found was that the writers who, after about 40 weeks, were posting number in the 50s or higher all became professional writers. None of those who posted only five to ten points a week made it. Not one.

I'd like to start something along these lines so give his article a read and let me know your thoughts.

~Anthony

None of those who posted only five to ten points a week didn't make it. Not one.

has me confused.

You mean only people who posted at least 11 points a week or higher became pros?

Everyday I write a significant amount of new work, I score a block. I have been pretty fuzzy on my definition of significant. It varies with the pressures of my real job and family. I would rather track this in a more objective manner.

Also, I like the idea he has that you send out submissions immediately and just keep resending when you get rejections. It's like following Heinlein's rules and keeping score. Nice.

Leslie

[This message has been edited by LAJD (edited September 11, 2008).]

In any case, I'm only rehashing what Mr. Dean Wesley Smith posted on his blog so if anything I wrote is unclear you might get a better idea from the blog post I linked.

From what I understand him to mean is that those who wrote, wrote and wrote some more, always submitting their work, got better and ultimately made some sales that led to a career in writing.

Those who didn't rack up points by writing and submitting never made any real sales and are not professional writers today.

I hope this is clearer.

Dean's summary, is, quote, "Write and mail a short story every week, and trust me, in just a little over a year, your points will be up there, and you will start selling."

By your summary, one would have to write and submit more than 5 to 10 short stories a week, or over one novel per week. (He doesn't mean write and submit, he means submit or resubmit, and write enough inventory to be able to do lots of submissions.)

That means generating a large stock of stuff to keep resubmitting. Size of stock proportional to response times. For short stories with their six weeks response time one needs at least six short stories ready for market. For novels with their longer response times you need more than one novel ready--and they need to be standalone novels. You'd have several stories out at one time.

We tried something like this with Anne's submittals club, and I found I couldn't write stories to deadlines without severly compromising their quality.

I suspect Dean's idea, or the expression of it, is overly simplistic. It's basically a rewrite of Heinlein's rules with some numerical tracking and targets. I find Heinlein's rules, without Dean's targets, more helpful and a whole lot more fun.

Cheers,
Pat

[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited September 12, 2008).]

I'm currently consistently at the 15-20 range. Frankly, as a short story writer, it is all but impossible to get much above 25-30 if you are subbing to only paying markets (and frankly, if you want to be a professional writer, you should only sub to non-paying markets in exceptional cicumstances).

So what it basically means is that, if you want to be a pro writer, you need to write novels.

This shouldn't come as a great surprise. The short story market simply isn't big enough to make much money out of (no-one ever seems to talk money, for some reason, so I will; this is my third year of getting stuff sold and published, and I'm currently just over $800 in sales; I reckon I'll break the $1000 mark by the end of the year, but only just). A novel advance can get you $5000 or so. If you earn out, and if you start building up a catalogue that's ticking over nicely, you can make significantly more.

Arriki: I certainly don't pretend to know enough about the writing market to say whether those individuals in the original 'Race' were great writers so they write a lot or if the wrote a lot and thusly became great writers. I know that I crank out about one draft a week and many of you have read my drivel and can confirm that I'm no great writer. In truth it doesn't matter to me. If you write, you will get better.

TaleSpinner: My summary is NOT incorrect although it may be unclear from the sounds of it. It says submissions 'in the mail' meaning out to a pub, not submitted that week.

Tchernabyelo: I agree that only writing short fiction you are not going to get your numbers much higher than 20-30 and that is if you are really cranking. That doesn't make the exercise any less valuable.

Cheers,

If the goal is to be published and if you agree that completing and sending work out for submission is a valid way for you to accomplish that goal then this will likely help. To me, It sounds like if we believe that some version of Heinlein's rules are correct, we are likely to get some benefit.

At the very least, we are setting aggressive goals in a public forum around submitting. I'm up for that. I will send stories out for submission without this, but I know myself well enough to know that If I have externally published goals, I will do better than I would without them.

I don't think that there is any way in hell I will be at 40/week in 6 months. For me, its not about that, its about the measuring and believing that some form of Heinlein's rule are correct.

Leslie

Any thoughts?

quote:

---

What he found was that the writers who, after about 40 weeks, were posting number in the 50s or higher all became professional writers. None of those who posted only five to ten points a week made it. Not one.

---

50 points after 40 weeks is 1.25 points per week.
5 points per week for 40 weeks is 200 points.
10 points per week for 40 weeks is 400 points.

It seems to me that either they were posting numbers in the 200s or higher after 40 weeks, or they were posting about 1.25 points a week, not both, so isn't there some muddled math if not an error?

Cheers,
Pat

If I have 5 SS and an outline out this week I have 8 points. On Saturday I get two of those stories back so I'm down to 6 points unless I send em right back out.

The idea is to have as much and keep as much of your work in the hands of an editor rather than cluttering your desktop.

All this is made fairly clear in his blog post that I linked in the first post of this thread. Perhaps in my excited state I didn't get all the details in my post.

Anthony

Week One:
You start the competition already having 3 shorts out to pubs. During the week, you send out 3 more stories that you've had laying around and suddenly realize they aren't going to sell themselves. This gives you six points for that week.
Total: 6 points

Week Two:
You've still got your six shorts out from last week so there is 6 points. you write and revise another short and send it out. That's one more story and one more point.
Total: 7 points

Week Three:
Still no word on your seven shorts that you have out. This week you put the polish on the first three chapters of a novel idea and you put together a query package to send out. That adds another three points.
Total: 10 points

Week Four:
Two of your stories came back this week. One is a rejection and one is a rewrite request. You immediately send out the rejection to a new pub and you rewrite/revise (to editorial request) your other short and send it back out. You got two back but sent them back out so there is no loss there.
Total: 10 points

Week Five:
In a flash of brilliance you knock out two shorts this week. You get the revisions done just in time to send them out. No word on your other shots or your query package.
Total: 12 points

Week Six:
A SALE! Your rewriting efforts have paid off and you sold a short this week. You have a glass of wine that leads to the whole bottle. In a drunken fog you seem to suddenly have a gift for the surreal and you bust out a down right creepy short. you sold a story which means one less story at pub but you also wrote and sent a new one. Broke even.
Total: 12 points

Week Seven:
Three rejection slips this week which you turn right around and send back out. Another week, another short story written and sent.
Total: 13 points

Okay, I'm done with that.

So as you can see there is no sub-totaling. the points to not add up over time. Each week is scored on it's own merit of what you have out to pub. Not what you sent out this week but rather what was out at the end of the week. If you don't write a story a week, it doesn't mean you can't slowly build up your numbers.

Every story you write should be a point toward your total until it sells or you've exhausted every market available.

I really think this is a great idea guys, I'm glad there is some interest. If anything else isn't clear, please let me know.

Anthony

Could be interesting to try it. I like that in this version we're not saying we'll write, polish and submit a story a week, month, whatever.

You wanna report points weekly?

Mine would be two points, for the last few weeks :-(

(I think a weekly or monthly Challenge would be appropriate. Speaking for myself, and my slow rate of finishing, monthly would be enough for me.)

Since this is really a competition against yourself, the frequency of reporting hopefully won't matter much. I personally would like to strive to get as close to a story a week.

I've created a thread in the Hatrack Groups forum for posting weekly results and standings. It can be found here...
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum2/HTML/000077.html

I'm excited, lets do this thang!

It's an excellent tool for combatting procrastination, writers block, and many other stumbling blocks that slow down or halt production.

Count me in with everyone who is, or will be, doing it.

I should really join this group as I'm currently on zero points. I'll join in two week's time.

The standings thread can be found here...
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum2/HTML/000077.html