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Author Topic: Question about YA
Meredith
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If you read or belong to NSG, you know I've had SEVEN STARS on the back burner for a few months now, waiting for more ideas/inspiration. I've had a few.

But, naturally, what's coming to me right now are ideas for a different story. This story would expand my short story "Mage Storm" to a novel. It could be--probably should be a YA fantasy novel.

I've been told before that my style sometimes feels YA, but I've never attempted to write something specifically YA before.

I know that YA should be fast moving (that could be a challenge for me). This story would have some very vivid visual sections, which I assume is good for YA. I've also heard that YA should have humor, which is likely to be a big problem for me. (My humor tends to be very dry. A lot of adults don't even get it.)

Anything else?

I've read some YA fantasy. Harry Potter, of course. And Narnia. Some of the Percy Jackson books. And a few others that I can't recall titles or authors right now.


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Teraen
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Having read a little of your stuffs, I would say don't worry. Youth are surprisingly able to pick up stuff that isn't "their" age (like humor). Just pick an MC who is the target age group and start writing. By having someone their age, you will automatically start creating a sympathetic character for them to follow.
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Meredith
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Thanks. "Don't worry" is probably the very best advice for starting a first draft.

The MC is probably 14/15, so in the right age group.

[This message has been edited by Meredith (edited June 14, 2010).]


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KayTi
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Read some more YA to see what's going on in the genre these days. It's a hot area, to me it seems like one of the main excitement points in fiction right now. Everything on the "new" shelf at the library for sci-fi and fantasy is #38 in a series or something ridiculous. Literally nothing is standalone or nothing new that's starting a series off. YA is much more likely to have standalones, much more likely to have short (3-4 books) series, and because the books are generally shorter, they come out faster.

I'd recommend reading THE ANGEL EXPERIMENT by James Patterson, TWILIGHT if you haven't already, HUNGER GAMES if you haven't already, and maybe something like the UGLIES by Westerfeld (sci-fi, but great at handling YA culture points like slang, tech use, and testing the boundaries on subjects like alcohol, partying, relationships while still remaining well on the Y side of YA.)

Angel experiment is great for character voice. I think Twilight is great on pacing (particularly after the first few chapters and the relationship begins to pick up.) I haven't read Hunger Games yet (waiting for the last one to come out so I can read all three in a row) but have heard so much buzz about it that it can't be ignored.

Or just ask your librarian/bookseller for 5 great YA titles of the last 5 years to read (Uglies might be a little older than that...)

I think you'll notice some similarities. Pacing is the key to me. The YA books I read move much more quickly than the other genre books I read, and it's not because nothing's happening in the other stories, but rather I think more time is spend on laying foundations and going back to provide motivations for characters (or dramatizing a scene so we have the motivation later) but honestly, YA books are able to accomplish this with a brevity that is astonishing and pretty nifty.

The main thing to do is Resist the Urge to Explain - RUE as the writers of Self-Editing for Fiction Writers call it. If ever you find yourself thinking "I need to explain this for the kids..." STOP. Take a step back. Delete. And just write on with the assumption that they can figure it out. Usually you'll find yourself burying an explanation into the next few paragraphs of text anyway - that's soon enough. Don't do the "dear reader" talking to the camera kind of thing. Kids see right through that. It might be appropriate in lower middle-grade writing (for elementary school kids) - YA readers are generally quick-witted enough to understand the nuances and/or read back through a passage or go back in the book to figure something out if it doesn't make sense.

One of my biggest pet peeves in children's fiction is when the author deliberately hides something from the reader (sometimes also from the main character, but often just from the reader.) It's just one of my pet peeves, but I suggest avoiding this like the plague. One story I read recently had lines like "Now she knew who was her nemesis, and she hurried down the corridor..." But never telling US what the MC had figured out, annoying!!

At any rate - best of luck to you! Writing YA is great fun!


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TrishaH24
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What kind of YA you read should largely depend on what kind of YA you write. Are you writing for middle graders? Teens? Girls? Boys? What kind of setting are you using? Is it modern day, real life issues, or set in a fantasy world? I'd go to the bookstore and look for covers or back blurbs that sound similar to your story and start there. You could always branch out later if you like, but reading for me is always the best way to research a genre.
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Meredith
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Good advice.

This will be second-world fantasy. A quest, but not a classical-type quest to save the world. And something of a coming of age story.

Next time I go looking for more books, I'll check out the YA section.

I have no desire to read TWILIGHT. This won't be paranormal romance, anyway. Even if I wanted to read it, I OD'd on vampires and werewolves just now, reading for the genre of my urban fantasy. There is an awful lot of trash, and just a handful of good stuff, out there with vampires and werewolves. Can't take any more right now. Not even the good stuff for a while.


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TamesonYip
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Cause I am just in a linking mmod:

http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2007/02/dude-looks-like-ya.html

He claims basically pacing is what determines YA vs adult fiction- not theme or characters even.


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KayTi
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quote:
Are you writing for middle graders? Teens?


There is a difference, and most librarians recognize quite a hard line between young adult and middle-grade (where YA is somewhat but not completely synonymous with teens.) Here's one blog post that covers this subject. There are many others. I'd also check out the YA section of the American Library Association (I recognize that many Hatrackers are not from the US and this may not be meaningful to them, but I believe the YA/middle-grade distinctions are most meaningful to the US bookstore and library systems, as things are different elsewhere. Sorry for the US-bias.)

My librarian friend uses a standard library definition based on age of protagonist and publication date (there's some funny business about books published before some date in the 1970s that has them shelved differently.) Primarily the breakout point is the age 14, at least according to her and her resources (she's a K-8th grade school librarian.)

Just be aware that middle-grade is in today's publishing business considered something quite different from YA. Pacing and pushing the envelope of content are two primary themes in YA. Middle grade often has the pacing, but usually deals with a little less edgy thematic content.

I get that people don't want to read Twilight (or HP) because it's too popular or seems too distasteful, but I still recommend at least picking up the book and reading a few pages in the center so you can get a feel for the flow, the word use, the characterization (she's really quite a whiner) and the pacing. It's the most popular YA book phenomenon in recent memory (HP started as a middle-grade reader phenomenon, even though the later books moved into more YA/edgy fare.) It's what customers are falling all over themselves buying. If you want to know what people are into, it's worth at least reading a chapter from the most popular titles in the genre (I hear you, paranormal romance isn't your genre, however recognize that most readers of Twilight weren't speculative fiction readers to begin with - the book pulled them in, and crossed over to an adult fan-base as well. My 40 year old sister is a gaga twilight fan, it's really funny.)

Good luck!


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Meredith
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you writing for middle graders? Teens?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is a difference, and most librarians recognize quite a hard line between young adult and middle-grade (where YA is somewhat but not completely synonymous with teens.)

My librarian friend uses a standard library definition based on age of protagonist and publication date (there's some funny business about books published before some date in the 1970s that has them shelved differently.) Primarily the breakout point is the age 14, at least according to her and her resources (she's a K-8th grade school librarian.)

I get that people don't want to read Twilight (or HP) because it's too popular or seems too distasteful, but I still recommend at least picking up the book and reading a few pages in the center so you can get a feel for the flow, the word use, the characterization (she's really quite a whiner) and the pacing.

Good luck!


This will definitely be YA, not middle grade. The MC is 14 or 15.

It's not that I won't read paranormal romance. It's that I read three in a row and OD'd. Sherrilyn Kenyon's was simply awful. Patricia Briggs was good. Charlaine Harris was barely passable. I'm tired of vampires and werewolves, now. I want to read something else. Twilight just really doesn't appeal to me, any way, from what I've seen.

I liked Harry Potter, except for the end of the last book. I like the premise for the Percy Jackson stories, but the writing is plain dreadful. (The word use more than the plotting, etc.)

Any suggestions on second world YA fantasy?


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TamesonYip
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Would Hunger Games count as second world? It is dystopia, futuristic with its own unique world. Similar would be Uglies. I can't think of anything more standard right now, but I am not a YA reader usually.
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KayTi
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The ones I suggested before are all second-world contemporary/urban fantasy (Uglies, due to tech content, is sci-fi, but it's contemporary/near future Earth.)

My favorite swords/sorcery style YA fantasy is still Robin McKinley's THE BLUE SWORD, as well as THE HERO AND THE CROWN (which precedes Blue Sword chronologically but was written second. I prefer Blue Sword, but they are both in my top 5 favorite books ever so either are great.)

I'm afraid I don't read much else that's YA AND fantasy and written recently (those were written in the 80s.) I've done Percy Jackson series (I enjoyed the writing, thought the humor was excellent and was mostly removed for the film, which was one of many reasons the film didn't do very well IMHO,) the kids and I just finished the second in the Septimus Heap series, but both of these series are classified middle-grade, because at the beginning of the series the MC's are 11 or 12.

I did recently read GONE, as well as MAZE RUNNER, which are YA (age of protags.) Both are near-future fantasy (special powers/abilities/weird locations) - I hesitate to recommend them, though, because I didn't really enjoy the books. They're fine, they're just not up there in my list of Most Awesomest Books Evah.

I review what I read on shelfari, if you wanted to find me over there (it's one of those book-reading/sharing sites like GoodReads, I just happen to use it and not goodreads) - you can find a link to my Shelfari shelf on my blog. I just write the reviews for myself/my friends, I don't write them with the intent that I'm being balanced or fair or anything, so you've been warned. (then again, I love books and can always find something redeeming about a book, so it's not like I trash anything. Not my style.) I read almost exclusively in middle-grade and YA speculative fiction.

Oh - another recent YA title that has popped that is worth a read is THE BOOK THIEF, which is world war II, narrated by death (protag is 12, so it violates the YA conventions but is universally shelved YA or Adult due to thematic content.) It's excellent, the writing is spectacular. Marcus Zusak is the author.

Oh, and I can't believe I haven't yet recommended THE GOOSE GIRL by Shannon Hale. It's YA due to age of protag, but it's a lite YA because the thematic elements are soft, it's not an edgy push the envelope title. I think Hale's writing is beautiful. She has a way with words that I really like, and my kids enjoyed this book (we listened to the audio book) immensely. It's a retelling of the fairy tale The Goose Girl, but a fully-envisioned second-world swords/sorcery (well the magic is mostly unknown to the population and somewhat discovered by the MC) environment. Other titles by Hale are also excellent, but Goose Girl is tops (Princess Academy is second.)

And meanwhile, thanks for the heads-up on the vampire titles, I keep hearing them/seeing them recommended in my B&N or Amazon lists based on other titles I've purchased, glad to have some more intel,


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MAP
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Second world YA:

Poison Study by Maria V. Snyder.

The Shifter by Janice Hardy

Both of them are debut novels.

[This message has been edited by MAP (edited June 15, 2010).]


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Meredith
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Thanks KayTi and MAP for the list. I now have some titles to look for next time I go to the friendly neighborhood bookstore. I have quite a backlog now. Still, I have that 40% off coupon . . .

quote:
And meanwhile, thanks for the heads-up on the vampire titles, I keep hearing them/seeing them recommended in my B&N or Amazon lists based on other titles I've purchased, glad to have some more intel,

You're welcome. The Patricia Briggs series starts with MOON CALLED. It's not YA, but there isn't anything offensive in it, either. It's a good, fast read with a strong female protagonist who manages to rescue the big, strong, fierce males. I liked that.


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satate
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YA Fantasy - Fablehaven - I haven't read it. I've been meaning to get to that one but I see it read by a lot of kids. You know it's good when a kid says just one more paragraph and then I'll stop.

I liked The Magic Theif.

I wasn't a fan of Artemis Fowl, but I saw that one read by a lot of kids.

A lot of my piano students liked Percy Jackson and the Olympians.

Then there's Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising. (Though I'm not sure if it isn't middle grade)

When I was in jr. high I loved Terry Brook's Shanara Series, the sword of Truth one. Back then the Shanara Series only had the Sword of Truth saga. The books were in my jr. high library though I'm not sure if they are categorized as YA.


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