This is topic "an insignificant planet" in forum Fragments and Feedback for Short Works at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.


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Posted by francis (Member # 2163) on :
 
Don MacArthur finished smoking a joint as he staggered towards his second-story bedroom window. The 19-year-old millionaire peered through the glass at the front door of the townhouse belonging to Sarah Wilcox, his neighbor and former high school American Literature teacher. He heard the splatter of rain droplets on the sidewalk in front of her home as he opened the window and inhaled the humid air.
“Where are you, love?” He said, listening to the speaker on his eavesdropping device.

 
Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
 
Howdy! You sure jump right in, don't ya!

Most folks lurk for a while then let their voices be heard as participants in discussions before posting. You can learn a lot that way about how things go around here. And old timers are often more likely to give their valuable time and trust to someone they know is invested in the group.

Anyway, about your snippet here:

1. I certainly hope Don isn't your protagonist. You've instantly put me off him by having him smoke a joint AND by having him be a 19-year-old millionaire AND that he seems to be stalking his former Lit teacher. All of those things make him out to be an antagonist. BUT, I'm wondering how relevant it is that we know he's a millionaire, or even how old he is. At least at this point. I think it's a little overboard and can be shown through well done narrative later on. Just replace "The 10-year-old millionaire" with "He" and it works just as well without being overly pretentious.
Second, and this is just a nitpick, is the line about the splatter of raindroplets. It makes it sound like he hears the rain before he opens the window. I'm also seriously doubtful that he could hear the rain on the sidewalk in front of a home that will be a minimum of thirty feet away and on main floor level while he is on second level--even WITH the window open. He might hear the general hiss of rainfall, or the soft ping of raindrop on his own window. But likely not on the sidewalk across the way.
Third, is the whole story going to be written from the antagonist's POV?
Fourth, this guy seriously creeps me out. Hope he's not a reflection of you.
 


Posted by Phanto (Member # 1619) on :
 
I have some reactions to this text; however, nothing that would be of any use to you. Of course, it's hard to give any solid feedback on such a small segment.
 
Posted by cicerocat (Member # 2138) on :
 
Hi,

I like the setup of a more ordinary situation into something that looks spy like.

Only a couple nitpicky comments.

"The 19-year-old millionaire" and " his neighbor and former high school American Literature teacher" -- depending on your pov these can seem like breaks out of pov or unnatural thoughts for the character to have at the time. Now if this is a more external pov, then that's not a problem, though the second one is a little wordy, imo.

Also "mc's name/pronoun/identifier did this" type of sentence structure gets a little repetitive. Consider altering one of them.

Finally, the "he" of "he said" needs to be lowercased.

Hope this helps,
Cya,
CC

[This message has been edited by cicerocat (edited August 26, 2004).]
 


Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Ah, DJV, ever a sensitive soul...

I do rather doubt that mft is a pot-smoking millionaire, though 19 isn't an impossible age. And having a crush on a former high school AmLit teacher living next door...that's not probable at all.

Be a dear, and give us a little more context for this opening, what sort of help you're looking for, genre and length et al. Oh, and give us a second chance at that first impression thing too.
 


Posted by Ferrus Magnate (Member # 2157) on :
 

As a rule, I try my hardest to avoid using slang ("joint") in my narrative. Dialogue? Yes, fine. But narrative, no no no no no no.

I also really dislike giving out information just "for no reason," like "the 19-year-old millionaire."

There should be ample opportunity to SHOW us that he's 19, that he's a millionaire, who Sarah is, etc. Too much information packed into one tiny little space, and none of it revealed in context. When I can hear the writer's voice telling me things, addresses and dates and "it was his birthday" and stuff like that, I always react with negative vibes. that he's this way or that. Never tell. Show. Show. Show.

I do like the bit about his looking THROUGH his glass. Maybe show us how that makes the place look, or indicate he's looking at the place all bent because of the type of glass it is?

Another biggie, a HUGE one for me, is "Where are you, love?" You really ought to indicate HOW he said it. He could say it in the tone used in drawing room comedies, or he could be saying it in the fade-to-black last line of a creepy movie trailer. It makes all the difference in the world HOW he asks the queston.


 


Posted by Edmund (Member # 2044) on :
 
I'm sorry, but I have to go off on tangent here. I get crazy when people say "Never tell." It is impossible to have a story without telling certain information unless you want to fill thousands of pages with boring details. The best writers know how to differentiate between the things that NEED to be shown for maximum impact, and those that can, and should, be told in the interest of time and sanity.

For the record, the details referred to here by FM should be shown and not told. It's just that when people say "never" tell, I have to contradict that.

I think what our new friend is doing with his opening is typical of people of our generation when they first start writing -- they write things from a cinematic POV. We can't help it, with all the movies and TV we watch. I wrote an entire novel that way before being taught better.

The thing that separates books from any other medium is that books allow us, by way of deep penetration with POV, to get inside a charcater's head and let us see what they are really thinking and feeling. We need to learn to use that tool to its maximum effect.
 


Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Sure sure...but we already had the "Show don't tell" argument.
 
Posted by Edmund (Member # 2044) on :
 
Aren't we legally bound to have that conversation every Tues. Wed., and alternating Sundays?

Besides, FM started it. Say "never tell" within fifty feet of me and you're just asking for trouble...

 


Posted by Ferrus Magnate (Member # 2157) on :
 
I told you so.

 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
I franky doubt that FM was within fifty feet of you, Ed.

But if you want to continue the "show don't tell" argument, you can try reading don't Tell" Let's abolish this abusive mantra!. If that doesn't terrify you...well, it might not. If you want terror, follow one of EJS's little Shockwave links
 


Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :
 
I second Survivor on the shockwave link that EJS put up. I did it around 1:00 am and nearly jumped out of my skin. I had to stay up an extra hour just to calm down. Thanks Eric, belatedly.
 
Posted by Ferrus Magnate (Member # 2157) on :
 
My point of view:

I write as if the material I'm displaying is COMPLETELY UNKNOWN to the audience. If my characters don't know what a tank is, then it's a big metal object on wheels. If my character doesn't know what whipped cream is, it's white fluffy goo spraying out of an aerosol can (if they know what an aerosol can is to begin with or it's just a colorfully-decorated metal pipe that's capped on one end with a nozzle on the other).

Likewise, I absolutely despise when writers "reveal" information with me.

Bad:
Harry saw the old wizard standing on the steps of the temple. The wizard had long been regarded as famous among puzzle-makers, but had also been involved in curious and suspicious undertakings during the Goblin Wars.

Good:
"Look, Ron!" exclaimed Harry. "It's a book full of articles on famous people."
"It looks old."
"The date says it was made during the Goblin Wars!"
"What's in it?"
Harry opened the book. "It's all about Cornelius Doffman!" Then, Harry gasped.
"What is it?" asked Pansy.
"It says here he was suspected of secretly funneling money to Goblin sympathizers!"
"Snaps!" cried Neville.

 


Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
 
quote:
Another biggie, a HUGE one for me, is "Where are you, love?" You really ought to indicate HOW he said it. He could say it in the tone used in drawing room comedies, or he could be saying it in the fade-to-black last line of a creepy movie trailer. It makes all the difference in the world HOW he asks the queston.


Now I thought Francis did a pretty darn good job of characterizing his POV character as a creep, a stalker type. So putting a dialogue tag that describes the WAY he says "Where are you, love?" is totally unnecessary. I can hear EXACTLY how he says it. I don't need to be told. I've already been shown.

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited August 29, 2004).]
 


Posted by Ferrus Magnate (Member # 2157) on :
 
Except that it wasn't clear to me whether or not the "creepy" characterization was what was being attempted.

And, besides... giving indications of tone isn't telling. It's showing, because you can't hear a book (unless it's being read by Tim Curry, in which case everything sounds creepy and stalker-y).

What's more, simply assuming the typical, STEREOtypical stalker tone "Where aaaaaaaaare youlooooooove?" is cliche' and trite, and by definition totally unacceptable. It turns the character into a joke, a one-note element that brings to question why the story is being written in the first place. "Why are we getting what we've already gotten?"

Stalkers don't typically sound like they do in the movies, anyway. Do a little research into the myths and stereotypes of stalkers and you will find that many of the most dangerous people in our culture were often portraying themselves -- even in private or in their own journals -- as nice, quiet, serene people. Therefore, it's also a question of whether you're going for realism or for cliche'.



 


Posted by Edmund (Member # 2044) on :
 
Thaks for that link. Scary stuff, indeed, and not a can of worms I have any desire to reopen. In my own defence, you can only give me but so much grief for not knowing you've had that conversation ad naseum; I've only been on this site for a few weeks.
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Have you tried that Shockwave of Eric's, then? I think it's in the thread about using weather to create a mood.
 
Posted by Edmund (Member # 2044) on :
 
Looked for it but couldn't find. I'm gonna get a head ache trying to get caught up with you mooks...
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Just wait 'til we use "cranial imploder" on you. If no one else is simultaniously using "HEAD A SPLODE", the effects are dire indeed
 
Posted by Edmund (Member # 2044) on :
 
It's the ED A SPLODE button that worries me...
 


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