Try to imagine something called a sailwagon used for transportation in desert salt flats, constructed using medieval-ish technology appropriate for a fantasy world. If the word "sailwagon" was all you had to go on and you were aware of the context described above, what sort of picture appears in your mind? What does it look like to you?
The reason I ask is that I'm attempting to guage how many new & strange concepts to introduce in a story without info-dumping, and without forcing the reader to create too many "mental bookmarks" for things which need more explanation later.
[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited October 28, 2004).]
Posted by Minister (Member # 2213) on :
I don't see a problem with simply throwing out the term, as long as people are aware of the information that you gave us. Most will probably picture something akin to a sailboat on wheels or skis. As for me, it seems that I have seen a picture of some such contraption, maybe in sketches by Da Vinci or some such. I don't think the things became practical before fiberglass construction, but hey, this is fantasy, right?
Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
'Sailwagon' just doesn't roll off the tongue, ya know?
The wagons of the mid 19th century were called "Prairie Schooners" so how about something like "Land Schooner"? Then give a brief description of the way it's wheels sound on the rough ground as it speeds over the salt flats, it's great white sails billowing out like... something or other.
Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :
Whereas I do like the term "sailwagon". It immediately caught my attention and had me wondering and imagining what a sailwagon was. Land Schooner just doesn't do it for me.
I too have seen pics of such a contraption, but I'm thinking it was related to gaming. A picture on a module? It's been so many years since I've gamed, though, I cannot recall clearly.
Susan
Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :
I see it more as a wagon modified to accept sails than a boat modified to accept wheels. The term 'sailwagon' is plenty descriptive of and by itself. I'm not sure you need to tell more, just show it in action.
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
Thanks, everyone for the feedback. I've been researching wagons, and a land schooner looks nothing like a ship (of course). Most interesting and charming are the little sheepherder's wagons, which are like primitive RVs:
My first impression was a one-person mode of transportation. Like the kind of thing you see out in the SanFran bay, where people have to stand and sail.
I am all to familar with overloading the character with new concepts. But one somehow begets the other. If this exist... then that must logically follow... and that... and then I leave the reader scratching off what little hair they have left.
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
If any of you want to see the word in context, I posted the first thirteen lines of the chapter. Thanks again for your responses.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
One point to remember if you design such a thing, it will differ from a conventional wagon in the need for a wheelbase sufficient to deal with the tendancy to keel over in a stiff or contrary wind. I also have to give a qualified endorsment to Minister's objection to the practicality of such a vehicle. The worst problem is that without modern tires, the thing will be prone to founder badly, particularly under a heavy load. It wouldn't be a very effective means of transporting heavy loads.
Also consider that deserts with a constant wind tend to have dunes. The wind in a salt flat probably would be too fickle to be really useful.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
An outrigger would probably help with the tendency to keel over, but the foundering could be a challenge. Maybe skiis of some kind would be better than wheels.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
On snow or ice, sure. Pretty much anywhere else, they'd be even worse.
The real problem is that the leeward wheels will necessarily be under a heavier load, making them more prone to foundering. But of course, if the leeward wheels get stuck it is the worst possible thing (even if you're doing something very simple like running before the wind). There is simply no way that you can avoid being capsized in that situation.
If your windward wheels founder, then it isn't so bad, because the wind force on the sail and the momentum of the vehicle will tend to lever them up out of the hole. Also, if you're running across the wind, then the sudden drag will pull you around into the wind, and you'll come about in fairly good order if you keep your head. But it simply won't be the windward wheels that get stuck, it'll almost always be your leeward wheels, and the results are extremely infelicitous.
Posted by NewsBys (Member # 1950) on :
I like the term sailwagon. I got a mental image of a covered wagon type vehicle with the "cover" converted to a sail. The idea captures my imagination. Folks have mentioned some valid points. Of course all of those problems mentioned could be dealt with through the use of magic. Right?
Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
2 cents worth.
the word wagon, sounds heavy and slow. the word sail sounds light and fast.
To me a sail wagon sounds like an impractical thing, but if you had, lets say a 'tundra-skiff' or a "prairie-schooner', that would be cool.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 01, 2004).]
Posted by Castaway (Member # 2201) on :
Sailwagon worked for me. The image it creates in my mind is one of a wagon skimming across the salt flats with spinnaker billowing. I think it is great.
Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :
I think the term works fine. A few things might need to happen for this to work well. You would have to lower the center of gravity and extend the wheel-base. This would prevent tipping in most cases. Articulated steering would be a great help with changing wind directions and catching the wind.
I am picturing a low and wide "wagon". Something that would have evolved over the years as "technology" expanded. And a military angle would be a great thing to build upon. I also see personal versions that are sleeker and faster.
As far as weight and balast, using this in a fantasy setting, allows you alot of lee-way. They could have trees on this planet that the would is as light as balsa, but strong like an oak. The possiblities are always greater in a fantasy setting.
Just a few ideas I had, and you kinda asked...
Posted by Lorien (Member # 2037) on :
I think "sailwagon" is fine. However, my thought is that schooner and wagon denote different sizes of transpots in my mind. I would expect a sailwagon to hold 12 people max and travel short distances, whereas a schooner is larger and carries many people on long voyages. That is how I would imagine it.
Dan Simmons used this concept ("windwagon", I think) in his book Hyperion to cross grasslands.
Wouldn't things like wheels or skiis dig into the sand? Maybe it would be better to have a shape more like a ship with a flat bottom so it could skim across the surface (assuming you have sails). But, how do you get lift to go over the dune and not drive straight into it? Hmmmm. You could just make the salt flats flat.
On a side note: if you ever get the chance to go iceboating, it is quite the experience. Wow, do you fly with minimal wind!
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
quote:Dan Simmons used this concept ("windwagon", I think) in his book Hyperion to cross grasslands.
He does? {expletive deleted! }
Never read it. Even the name sounds too similar. My original name was Salt Sailor, because that's what they haul, but that name gives no indication of appearance.
Maybe I'll call 'em Land Sailors.
Posted by Lorien (Member # 2037) on :
Oh, I don't think it matters that the names are similar. I mean, it makes sense to call it that. Sailwagon is what it is. And much more descriptive than Land Sailors. Here is the description DS gives when he introduces the windwagon:
quote:...it's sails white squares against a dark plain draining of color. The last light had faded by the time the large ship had tacked close to the low bluff, folded it's main sails, and rolled to a stop. ...The thing was wooden, handcrafted, and huge--curved in the pregnant lines of some seagoing galleon out of Old Earth's ancient history. The single gigantic wheel, set in the center of the curving hull, normally would have been invisible in the two-meter-tall grass, but the Consul could hear the snap of pennants far above and a steady, almost subsonic hum that would be coming from either the ship's interior flywheel or it's massive gyroscopes.
His is a futureistic novel, so hense all the self-powered technology. Never much paid attention to the "single gigantic wheel" was too interested in the story. Anyway, thought you might be interested. Good luck!
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
Thanks. That was very interesting. I checked out the book at Amazon, and when I saw the cover art, I thought, "How does the dang thing go across the field?" The wheel was hidden, silly me. Simmons' craft seems even more improbable than mine!
The most amazing low-tech wind-powered land craft by far have to be Sean McMullen's wind trains in his Greatwinter trilogy, a far-flung future where any electricity is detected by ancient war satellites with AI, that fry the offending device to a crisp. McMullen's wind trains have giant turbines on either side. Strong Australian winds spin the turbines, which engage complex gears to then move the train along the track. For windless sections, they actually pedal.
Posted by cicerocat (Member # 2138) on :
I pictured a windsurfer (kinda like in this picture: www.angelfire.com/biz/surfsailmenorca/images/catsailing.jpg) , with a light wagon bed. And by the picture in my head, it has runners or maybe wheels. However I pictured it constructed with wood, especially since you said medieval like technology. You said desert, which makes me wonder where they got the wood to make these sailwagons.
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