In my effort to solve a problem with the story I decided to do shake things up a bit. For those who've read the whole thing, do you have any thoughts about shifting this to 1stPOV?
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People ask me if I ever get involved with the subjects I document. I tend to grit my teeth and answer very patiently with another question. How could I do my job if I were part of the story? Only by maintaining the sacred distance could I have any hope of understanding someone's life. A documentarian records, but does not participate.
I was repeating that mantra while Geroth and Iliath had their latest spat next to me. Iliath wanted Geroth to undergo Chrysalis. Geroth wanted to stave it off until he finished his mathematical treatise.
Even if Geroth hadn't asked me to, I might've turned the camera off as soon as Iliath had said, "Beloved, would you look at the invitation list for your Hatching Day?" I mean, how many examples of this conversation would Geroth need in the documentary of his life?
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Oooh, that might work! You're opening with the main conflict, for one thing. I am very curious about how this version is going to turn out and would happily take a look - but I hope you will also get a number of fresh eyes looking at it.
Posted by onepktjoe (Member # 2352) on :
Hi Mary,
My first thought was, "Don't you dare!" But that was because I liked the 3rdP version so much. Reading this opening, though, I can definitely see how 1stP might be fascinating to explore. I think I'd like to take a look, too.
Joe
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
I don't know if you need to take THAT drastic a step, but I was actually hoping that you'd get a little closer to your narrator during the story. When I read it, I felt that she wasn't affected by the events of the story and I kinda thought she should have taken them closer to heart.
If you want a read, I'd love to help you out...and this time I actually have time to give you feedback! It's a neat idea, and a nicely done story.
Posted by Dude (Member # 1957) on :
I remember this from the last time. It seems that this beginning is much stronger. Your narrator's voice is better. The first sentence in the last paragraph is a bit awkward, but other than that is sounds good. Maybe if you change might've to would've. Might've just didn't seem to fit there. Are you looking for readers?
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Jeraliey, I'm trying to remember which draft you read... Ah. Draft4. Draft 4 went through three more revisions trying to fix the distance at the beginning. Then I tried a Draft5, which didn't help, so I think it's inherent to the structure. This is Draft 6. sigh. It bears almost no resemblence to the story I started writing, except the characters and setting. Sorry, can you tell I'm frustrated?
Dude, I'll change it to "might have" but "would 've" would change the meaning. Thanks for pointing out that it snagged.
I'm not sure if I want readers. I mean. I do, but I know that the narrator voice is uneven still and there's a section that I need but is completely out of place in this format. It think I just wanted reactions to the idea at this point.
Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :
I think your use of 1st POV works well in this case, and I'm pretty persnickety about the use of 1st.
Susan
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
Yeah, the frustration is pretty evident. Sorry you're having trouble.
Just let me know if there's anything I can help with!
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
The difficulty is that you hadn't really captured the epiphany of the story. What J says about "she should have taken them closer to heart." That isn't a problem with the text, it's a problem with the events of the story.
Shifting this to first person might force you to change that event, since having the first person account makes no sense unless the character experiences the epiphany, causing her to write the story. But you have to craft the event first, simply writing the story in first person won't cause that event to be part of the story.
This story is a bit complicated, because there are several different possible epiphanies competing here. In the first version I read, the main epiphany seemed to be more personal, watching Geroth go through Chrysalis helped her to understand her own life better, and the price she'd paid to live it. In the last version, that epiphany is almost totally subordinated to the epiphany that the act of documentation is not neutral or free of consequences, and "good work" is aimed at desireable results rather than being a function of process. The story makes a fine vehicle for exploring that quandry as well.
I think that you could probably link these two epiphanies through her grandmother's messages. After all, they are to her as her documentary will be to Gero, in a sense. And coming to understand Geroth and what he faces in the context of her own life gives her a stronger motive.
But like I said, setting this in first person doesn't inherently do any of that.
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Survivor, you are one of the few people who read the draft with her grandmother. The thing I've been thinking about today (I'm trying to let the thing stew a bit) is that I was originally interested in the idea that we are created from our memories, so I set up a story to explore that.
I'm thinking about going back to that, because a story about work ethic isn't that interesting to me.
But I had, as you point out, so many different epiphanies that I wound up with two stories that were spliced together at the middle. The thought I had today was to return to the idea of memories and bring Grandma back. I'm thinking of staying in the 1st POV and having the whole thing be Vanessa writing to her grandmother, who is of course dead because of the whole relativity thing. I don't know. I need to sleep on it a bit more.
The other thought that I've had is that I should return to draft 4 (I think) and just make the thing longer. I think I'm trying to do too much in too little space.
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
Based on what you've presented here, versus what I read the last time, I think I actually prefer the 1st person POV. I hooked right into it this time, which was not the case the last time. (*Looks back at all the times I just wrote "time" and realizes the time is after midnight, and that my brain shut down hours ago.*)
At any rate, I think this version is cleaner and more engaging. And now it's time to go to bed.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Instead of making it longer to try to do more, maybe keep it shorter and simplify? Personally I am kind of biased against longer stories, though; going short may not be the right approach for this piece.
Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :
I like the idea of a 1st person approach. As long as the ending has the same impact as before, I say go for it. I really liked the ending of the 3rd person version... would be shame, in my opinion, if you lost that in the translation to 1st.
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
[edited to remove whining]
Let's see what people say about draft six before I start trying new things.
Readers?
[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited May 08, 2005).]
Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :
I only saw the comment about gnawing one's arm off... was that whining you were referring to?
Send it, Mary. I'll read the 40th draft if it comes to that, but by then, I'll be so biased as my opinion will be useless. Nevertheless, I've only read one draft, and if I drink enough wine at dinner tonight, I'll probably not remember what I read on the previous draft.
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Yeah. That would be it. I might start a discussion in Open Discussions about it.
I'll send it over. Thanks for reading.
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
Me!
Posted by MCameron (Member # 2391) on :
If you want fresh eyes, I'll read.
--Mel
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Oh! I like the idea of having it be a letter to her Grandmother.
Posted by Dude (Member # 1957) on :
I would like to read this one. my e-mail is fsilv01s@uis.edu.
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Dude and Mel, I've just sent it off to you.
Survivor, if this draft doesn't work, you'll be at the top of the list for Draft 7.
Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :
The only problem I have with the new beginning is the present tense of the opening paragraph. It's telling me that, no, she doesn't take part in what she's documenting. The only way for this to make sense to me is if the rest of the story demonstrates the truth of that sentiment, probably by telling of a time when she chose to take part and it ended tragically.
If you replaced "I tend to grit my teeth..." with something like "I always used to grit my teeth..." then I don't think I'd have any problem with it.
I also like the idea of a letter to Grandma. I always liked the Grandma story, but didn't feel that you had properly integrated the two stories before.
And of course I will read any version you choose to send me.
[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited May 09, 2005).]
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
My dear Mr. Fisher,
You are so very right about the present tense. I was trying to avoid it and see that I missed a spot.
As for Grandmother...let me see what the current readers say. I think I need a week away from it before I do another big overhaul.
Sincerely yours, MaryRobinette (Mrs. R.A. Kowal)
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
Hey, Mary....Grandmother isn't in my copy. Is that intentional?
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Oh yeah, Survivor and Mr. Fisher are talking about early, early drafts. Survivor is one of two people who read draft one. Mr. Fisher read draft...three? Anyway, I cut Grandma after I ran it through my critique group. I won't explain why she was in the story, because I might try to restore that aspect and would need clean eyes. I'm hoping this draft holds though.
Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :
I think your new opening is much stronger because it introduces two conflicts. You've got the McGuffin conflict between Geroth & Iliath, and the real conflict which takes place in the narrator's conscience.
My only caution about switching to first person is that it becomes very difficult to introduce your narrator. You need to give details like your narrator's name and description at appropriate moments, and these moments are difficult to create in first person.
