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Posted by SharonID (Member # 5059) on :
 
Site guidelines seem to indicate that one is supposed to give a certain amount of information before posting the thirteen lines, but if you're one of those who likes to read the lines before knowing anything about the story you probably don't really need any of this discussion about series, length, and setting to 'get' the thirteen lines. Skip just past the star-line after the next three paragraphs.

Feldrea the Bounty Hunter is actually the name/title of the MC of what may turn into a series of stand-alone short science fiction (straight-up in terms of no 'magic') stories. I'm shooting for roundabout 7K words, give or take, since (IIRC) that's in the range that's easier to sell and/or gets the best word rate in certain SF&F Markets, and I think I could do good separate episodes in that range, if I spend my words carefully enough. The setting is a frontier planet (in the sense of not being settled all that long or intensively... they have one or more spaceports and some advanced technology, but in some ways it's a rough, somewhat primitive society) with rugged (though not impossibly so) terrain and a variety of alien settlers/cultures, mostly creatures/beings who jumped ship and relatively poor ones who traveled by cheapest 'steerage' equivalent possible to help settle a planet with free/cheap homestead land. Humans are relative newcomers to the scene.

I am posting the first thirteen lines of a possible series opener (140W, thirteen lines in Courier 12pt set for 1" margins, not counting the blank line for the paragraphing... it's a full thirteen but doesn't spill over in my MSW, so I think that's right). The story isn't all written yet (though I do have considerably more than thirteen lines, and I do finish things on a fairly regular basis). In fact it's not even all plotted yet, or rather I have a number of potential ideas and plot-lines I could use this opener for, and I'm not sure which to pick first.

I'm not really looking for readers/critters for a whole story right now, just simple opinions on whether or not you would be likely to keep reading beyond this point (or if it just doesn't seem like your cuppa as far as genre goes, that's fine too!), though if you have other comments you'd like to make about the 13 lines, particularly ay comments about its potential for opening a series of episodes, not just one story, please feel free. I'm not particularly thin-skinned as long as the tone is reasonably polite, so please be honest! I do have one other question, but it would be kind of a spoiler to ask it before you read the lines and some people will already feel this intro is way too long, so here they are:

***************************************************************

Feldrea the Bounty Hunter reined in her dolgrath, peering through driving rain and rising dark. Broken branches and dangling bits of fur or fiber still told a soggy tale of her quarry's passage along the trail to the pass called Devil's Teeth. Shivering, she drew her lema-fur cloak closer, nudging Gnarla up the rain-washed trail. She didn't want to cross the frozen knife-edge pass in darkness or miss any traces, but she saw no shelter nearby. She'd find more rocks soon, and larger.

Near full dark, Feldrea found a group of massive rock slabs that formed a cave big enough for the two of them. She dismounted, removed her gear from the giant catamount, then reached up to ruffle the shaggy head. "Good Gnarla," she said. "Bring meat." The big cat padded off into the soggy dark, and Feldrea...


************************************************************

So if that were the beginning and this type of story is more-or-less to your taste, would you want to keep reading?

Now for the other question, for anyone who wants to consider it.... My MC is an ethical bounty hunter who doesn't knowingly just turn innocent victims over to any old lynch mob with gold to spare and no plans for a fair trial. So in the first story, would it be better to have her quarry be someone who is guilty of something heinous (who would likely also be very dangerous), or someone who is actually innocent but is being framed or blamed because (for example) that's all too easy to do to a new alien in town (which would make it more of a moral/ethical quandary story, though there would certainly still be action)? Head-on up against a truly diabolical creature or—while still on the hunt—untangling a web of deceit that begins with her employers but still involves considerable life-and-death action and consequence? I'm sure I'll do variations on both and beyond, over time, if Feldrea continues to come to life as she has so far, but which would be better in terms of trying to hook people into a series?

There are more convoluted ways to go, too, like someone who is innocent of that crime but turns out (perhaps after being released) to be guilty of something equally heinous or even worse. There's also the scenario of someone who just seems too nice and convinces her s/he didn't do it but is who is really guilty after all (my son's contribution), who gains a measure of her trust and then violates it, but maybe I don't want to get that complicated for a first story?

I want to make my MC so interesting that people will want to keep reading about how she handles a variety of situations, so which type of situation will let her show the most interesting aspects of her character and capabilities? I'll keep thinking about it, of course, but if anyone has an opinion on which kind of plot might be more likely to help turn the whole story into a hook for the series, please feel free to share. While my story does fuse some elements of frontier/western fiction with those of SF, I want it to have an overall depth and intensity that a certain clichéd type of "Space Western" doesn't carry. In addition to the action and chase aspects, each episode will have ethical and psychological conflicts and dilemmas as well, but even with the more straightforward plot I can find an ethical dilemma somewhere, since Feldrea also has decided tendencies towards bringing them back alive, not always the easiest way to do the job.

It does occur to me that it would be good to know more about Feldrea's faults and weaknesses, as well as her strengths and virtues (which are impressive, but she absolutely can't be perfect!) before answering that question, so I'll be thinking about that, too. Not my strongest suit, finding faults in my darlings, but I've been working on that one and making significant progress. Maybe Feldrea will take stylus in digits and write me a letter, if I get some clear space when I'm not fighting to keep my eyes open....

Thank you for whatever feedback you care to give.

Regards,

SharonID


 


Posted by lehollis (Member # 2883) on :
 
I'll start by saying I only read the text itself, to see how well it hooked me.

Personally, I think I would avoid an unfamiliar word in the first sentence. Actually, I like to avoid them as much as possible, even in science fiction and fantasy. From the later text, a reader can gather that it is cat-like. Perhaps you could call it a dolgrath cat, letting the reader know it is cat-like, but not a regular cat as they know of it, for now.

I wouldn't capitalize bounty hunter, for the same reason I wouldn’t capitalize warrior, soldier, priest, farmer, cooper etc. (Unless it was a Mr. Cooper.)

Mainly, what I'm missing here is a hook. We know she's hunting something, but we don't know why or why we should care. She's a bounty hunter, so we assume it is a criminal, which is good. It gives us something, but I didn't feel immediately hooked to the story. Hunting is a position of power, as compared to being hunted. If, for example, she were hunting a man known to be dangerous and cruel and she feared what will happen when she catches him--but she cannot let him escape (just as an example), I would feel hooked. I want to know what happens.

A sense of emotion or character would also help. Since she is my PoV character, I would like to know about her very soon. After all, I'm going to be spending time in her head. How does she feel about this mission? How does she feel about hunting in such miserable conditions (beyond hte difficulty of bad weather.)

Personally, I prefer the moral quandaries. I feel decisions and choices are where characters emerge, and where growth is most likely to be seen. I would go for the moral quandary. The more she has to struggle to make the right decisions, the better. So, the more convoluted and complex, the better.

Space Western is an old concept. The original Star Trek was pitched as "Wagon Train in Space", if I remember correctly. I think that's okay. The goal isn't so much to do something original, even if we all crave it, it's to do whatever you do in a refreshing way, and with interesting characters. You seem to have the right goal there.

I also agree that faults and weaknesses are good to know about.
 


Posted by mommiller (Member # 3285) on :
 
I only skimmed a bit of your exposition before reading your first 13 lines.

quote:
Feldrea the Bounty Hunter reined in her dolgrath(Huh what is this? I'd rather you tell us up front, then leave us puzzled until further down.), peering through driving rain and rising dark.

Ending verbs with -ing tends to weaken them. You might snag the action a bit better by changing them.

quote:
Broken branches and dangling bits of fur or fiber still told a soggy tale of her quarry's passage along the trail to the pass called Devil's Teeth.

Highlighted to show adj/noun combos.

quote:
Shivering, she drew her lema-fur cloak closer, nudging Gnarla up the rain-washed trail. She didn't want to cross the frozen knife-edge pass in darkness or miss any traces, but she saw no shelter nearby. She'd find more rocks soon, and larger. (larger what?)

Highlighted to show more -ing verbs and continuing adj/noun combos.

quote:
Near full dark, Feldrea found a group of massive rock slabs that formed a cave big enough for the two of them. She dismounted, removed her gear from the giantcatamount, then reached up to ruffle the shaggy head. "Good Gnarla," she said. "Bring meat." The big cat padded off into the soggy dark, and Feldrea...

This somewhat hooked me. I think by eliminating some of your descriptives and weaker verbs that you'd pull the reader into the tale a bit more effectively.

Edited the first two times for formatting problems. Couldn't get the 'quotes' right.
Third time's a charm to replace "tail," with, "tale." Oy!
[This message has been edited by mommiller (edited March 08, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by mommiller (edited March 08, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by mommiller (edited March 08, 2007).]
 


Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
 
I had no problem with "dolgrath"; since she's riding it, I get that it's a mount, and not one I'd have heard of.

I don't think there's any requirement to post much other than the 13 lines, beyond:

* How many words is the story?
* What genre?
* What do you want? (Readers for the whole thing, comments on the first 13, something else?)

I wasn't hooked. I totally get what's happening, and I like that, but there are 2 things missing: sympathy for the character (I don't know if I should root for her aor against her); and struggle. She's just going about her usual work; there's no conflict. I think it would help if we knew that she's chasing a majorly evil guy who must be caught, and will stand a good chance of killing her when she gets him; or that she's chasing a poor beggar who stole bread and feels really guilty about bringing someone like that to "justice," but she took an oath; or something.
 


Posted by InarticulateBabbler (Member # 4849) on :
 
I just read the 13, too. If you explain too much about the story:
  • It looks more like an outline than a quick set-up
  • You won't really know if we as readers are really getting what you are trying to convey

    There's a lot of thick description. I think--IMHO--that you are trying to give us too mcuh in the first 13 lines, and are thereby cheating us out of the real story. I don't know who she's chasing. I don't know why. I don't know if she works for a municipality or if she rips wanted posters down and starts the chase.
     


    Posted by KayTi (Member # 5137) on :
     
    Plausibility point, the trail is rain-washed, but she doesn't want to go across the frozen knife-edge pass? Maybe frozen isn't meaning frozen like ice, but I don't know what else to conclude.

    I share the other poster's concern w/the ing words. For me it was strictly visual (I process everything visually - they're all pictures to me, even written words.) There were just too many of them too close together, it makes me have to work too hard to think what they each mean: peering, driving, rising, dangling, shivering.

    I was also more hooked by the second paragraph, and wonder if you couldn't switch the two.

    I found the names - dolgrath, feldrea, and gnarla to be a bit challenging to the brain. They do seem to share some characteristics, so they seem related to one another the way you see repeated character patterns in different languages, but just wanted to mention it as a possible concern. Might just be me.

    Good luck on this!

    Karen
     


    Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
     
    Gnarla the catamount made me think of Lion King
    I did not read your long bits. Just the thirteen.
    Unless something is about to happen, I would wonder whether you have started in the right place.

    [This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 12, 2007).]
     


    Posted by Sara Genge (Member # 3468) on :
     
    I like the idea, but found it difficult to read because there were too many proper names from the setting that I couldn't relate to just yet.

    quote:
    Feldrea the Bounty Hunter reined in her dolgrath, peering through driving rain and rising dark.

    This line is OK, I think.

    quote:
    Broken branches and dangling bits of fur or fiber still told a soggy tale of her quarry's passage along the trail to the pass called Devil's Teeth.

    Cut the "still" from "still told": if you don't tell us she's caught this quarry, we're going to assume she's seeing something that was made a while ago. I don't like the "Devil's Teeth" thing. First, it makes the sentence impossibly long. Second, it's not such a creative name for a trail pass. Can you wait to drop it in later? If it's important, dedicate a separate paragraph further down to show the heroine's thoughts and precautions before entering Devil's Teeth.

    quote:
    Shivering, she drew her lema-fur cloak closer, nudging Gnarla up the rain-washed trail.

    Neither lema-fur cloak nor rain-washed trail are wrong per se, but this phrase seems to be packed in with adjectives. How is "rain-washed" different from "wet"? Why not use that instead, since it's shorter.

    quote:
    Near full dark, Feldrea found a group of massive rock slabs that formed a cave big enough for the two of them.

    "Massive" is the superlative equivalent in use to "big": one of those adjectives that don't really describe all that much. How big is big? Three times Feldrea's size? Two square miles? See where I'm going?
    How about telling exactly how big they are? Or, since they form a cave mouth I'm going to assume they're big, you can cut the adjective altogether.
    "Feldrea found a group of rocks that formed a cave big enough for the two of them." I've also cut "slabs" to lighten it up, but that's just me being mean to your text. Sorry.
    Or
    "Feldrea found some rocks five man-heights tall that formed a cave big enough for the two of them."

    quote:
    She dismounted, removed her gear from the giant catamount, then reached up to ruffle the shaggy head. "Good Gnarla," she said. "Bring meat." The big cat padded off into the soggy dark, and Feldrea...

    I think you've used soggy twice in these thirteen lines.

    Overall, nice story, nice descriptions and nice milieu you're building here. Good luck with the rest. I hope my comments helped and sorry for playing around with your text; I have to start editing my own stuff now, and it's always easier to get started on someone else's stories, since you can see stuff with a fresh eye. Forgive me the experiment.

     


    Posted by SharonID (Member # 5059) on :
     
    Oy, I never meant to leave this for so long, but travel is always more complex and tiring than one hopes, and my trip to CA for my writer's conference and a visit with a friend near San Jose (where I am now) slammed into the rest of life, and I haven't even been able to check in here for almost a week. I'm exhausted and need to get to bed, but I just didn't want anyone to think I'd been put off or anything!

    International Women's Writing Guild conferences are absolutely fabulous opportunities... worth two adjectives! This was my first time at this one, a weekend held each March in the coastal mountains near Santa Cruz, and I am so glad I went (plus my teen granddaughter who writes came along for the conference, making it even better). A wonderful mix of inspiration and education, the workshops and the collective company.

    I am grateful for all the food for thought on my 13, and it's been very interesting learning how certain words are perceived (or not ) by people who probably don't live in the mountains (and in the case of some words or concepts, by people who probably read SF but not western/frontier stuff). Thank you so much to everyone who commented, and be assured that I am considering your remarks even though I haven't had much time to hang out lately and discuss things.

    Best Regards,

    SharonID
     


    Posted by starsin (Member # 4081) on :
     
    I don't know whether my thoughts will be read or not...but then again, it doesn't really matter, does it?

    I was a little hooked. I'd probably read on just to find out what the quarry was, and if it wasn't interesting, probably bug out.

    Nit picks: *warning* -- I bounce around...my thought process has never been fully organized yet

    quote:
    Near full dark...

    Is "full" necessary? It seemed to be a little more than needed to me. Just saying near dark works well enough.

    You seemed to hint at some events that occured earlier in the "hunt" that seemed to throw me a little...

    quote:
    She'd find more rocks soon, and larger

    implies that she's camped out in the rocks previously, but her last camp wasn't big enough...I don't really know where I'm going with this...but it's somewhere I'm sure.
    still regarding the above - if she's done this (bounty hunting) before...why is she camping out in rocks? If it was me, I'd be camping out in a camoflauged (spelling?) tent somewhere off the trail, not in some rocks. I'd be worried about getting found by my prey over shelter. You can't collect a bounty if you're dead...

    Is calling her "Feldrea the bounty hunter" necessary? Just call her Feldrea and we'll figure out she's a bounty hunter soon enough. To me, it just kinda kills the emotion or feeling or whatever it's called.

    Other than that...I'm good...-ish.
     


    Posted by RMatthewWare (Member # 4831) on :
     
    I totally get what's happening by the context. That's good. I was confused about Gnarla until the second paragraph, but I'm good now. My problem is: I'm not hooked. The language and descriptions are good, but why should I care? It's like music. You can play an instrument with perfection and not evoke emotion. I can play you a C all day long, and it may be perfectly in pitch, but so what. Or art. I can paint you a beautiful, sky blue canvas, and you may say, "wow, that's one hecka shade of blue", but it doesn't do anything else for you.

    I want a hook. Give me action, give me conflict, give me dialog. Give me some small snippet to care about your character or her conflict. Have your bounty hunter running after her prey. Have the MC wounded, or maybe her cat gets wounded. Give me something. Otherwise it's just pretty scenery. The Lord of the Rings was pretty too. It wouldn't have made the same story, though, if a wizard hadn't shown up at the door, or a midget hadn't found a neat ring.

    Matt

    PS: I read NOTHING of your description. I only read the 13 lines. When comes to the Fragment and Feedback, that's all I really want to see. The rest doesn't matter if the 13 lines doesn't do it for me.

    [This message has been edited by RMatthewWare (edited March 21, 2007).]
     


    Posted by jhust (Member # 2499) on :
     
    I like stories about bounty hunters. My own personal style of critiquing is to sort of re-arrange the lines a bit, because I tend to think a lot of people jump back and forth with their exposition unnecessarily, and because it gives me a good writing exercise as well.

    The first dilemma that I think you run into in this story is the exposition of her mount. Do you start by calling it a dolgrath, feline, by its name, or just simply by description of its fur, etc? And how do you reveal its name without seeming like you’re introducing a second character too quickly, or confusing the reader into thinking you’re introducing a third character besides the mount? I’ll choose the path of initially calling it what it is, in the context of the story, the dolgrath. Getting that out of the way is preferable to having to introduce its species name later. BUT, I recommend a quick followup sentence about what exactly it is. Don’t jump ahead on your exposition without giving us an initial mental picture of some sort. From its name, I deduced that it was some sort of lunky rhino-like beast. Something like:

    Feldrea peered through the driving rain and falling darkness from the makeshift harness atop her dolgrath. The large feline below snorted and grunted a plea to stop their trek. Feldrea patted it reassuringly and drew her dripping lema-fur cloak tighter.

    Here I gave a bit of a faster idea that there is a kinship between the two, and that the feline and she are both tired and battered a bit from the elements and the long trek. The name of the mount could have been revealed as she patted it, but I’ll wait. The second dilemma is, I think, to explicitly state the idea that Feldrea has to make a choice – to plunge forward into what she knows is a dangerous area, or to stop and rest with no shelter or protection, which you did.

    There was no shelter nearby, but she did not want to cross the Devil’s Teeth in darkness, nor lose the still-fresh trail. Feldrea shivered and nudged her reluctant mount. They charged ahead down the soggy path past tracks and broken branches into the foothills.

    Here, I displayed the conflict within her decision, and named the Devil’s Teeth right off the bat. With something so ominous, sometimes less is more. We can easily conclude that it’s a pass of some sort that she has to cross, and the danger held within that choice. The name, Devil’s Teeth conjures a good mental picture and piques interest that you can hold onto for a bit. The shiver works double: that it’s cold, and that she is apprehensive of the dangerous area. I saved the description of what’s on the trail until they began to move along it. I could have said “fresh tracks, broken branches and soggy bits of fur”, but I eased off on the description. The details of the trail could have been revealed as she peered atop the mount in the first sentence, but I think that would have been a bit too much exposition – the mount was more important at that stage. And besides, she would be looking into the distance for her quarry, not the trail which she has already scanned.

    Next is the halt:

    It seemed like an hour later before the rising moon revealed a group of massive granite slabs: a cave big enough for the two of them. The beast hastened for them, and upon arrival, Feldrea dismounted and ruffled Gnarla’s shaggy head. “Good,” Feldrea said. “Quickly. Hunt food.” The beast eagerly padded off into the darkness while Feldrea…

    Here, I gave a sense of estimated time lapse, sine Feldrea may not know for sure (but she may). I gave the beast a bit more personality. It wants to stop, and like anyone, we try a bit harder when we want something. And finally, I give the beast a name at the second display of intimacy, with a command (and a sense of urgency) from the master, and another sense of personality on the part of the beast.

    Some things I am not clear on in the story are:
    Is the ground frozen or not?
    Is there moonlight? (I assumed yes.)
    Can I get an idea of what she’s chasing, as well as how urgent her quest is?

    The most interesting part of the story, to me, and what other readers will latch onto and remember, I think, was the mount, which I tried to amplify the personality of. There is a small sense of conflict, a tiny bit of urgency, but it needs a real hook: a shocking discovery of some kind on the trail or a bit of violence (or prior violence) I think. (Maybe the mount is wounded or she is and the mount is taking care of her). Or perhaps she is trying to beat a third-party to her quarry? Right now the scene just feels a bit calm, at least for an opener.


    [This message has been edited by jhust (edited March 31, 2007).]

    [This message has been edited by jhust (edited March 31, 2007).]
     




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