This is topic 4th sale to Analog, 1st collaboration with Mike Resnick in forum Hatrack Writers - Publications & Reviews at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.
Stan Schmidt picked up my novelette "Ray of Light" for Analog Science Fiction and Fact. It was a Kris Rusch and Dean Smith workshop story. I was about 75% certain Stan would take it when I wrote it. I am glad my hunch was correct. It's the second Kris Rusch and Dean Smith workshop story I've sold to Stan.
Meanwhile, Mike Resnick and I sold our collaboration, "Peacekeeper," to the British anthology, MAMMOTH BOOK OF SF WARS. Mike's a perpetual collaborator and especially likes to collaborate with new professionals, so it was a real treat working with him -- and a lot of work, too. Mike's an astutue, incisive teacher. I was taken back to school!
Oh, and I also have some novelettes available at Amazon:
99 cents! A steal for your e-reader or Kindle app on your PC, laptop, or mobile!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Doing good there. You mind saying which workshops you have gone to?
Wish I could go to one of their workshops, He thinks I should go to the basic Kris and Dean show to learn the business works first but if I can't learn to write what good will that do?
But you're almost ready to do your own anthology of published stories.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
First workshop I ever did was the Kris and Dean show. That's a good workshop for ANYONE, but it's not a craft workshop.
For craft, I'd recommend something like the Orson Scott Card boot camp, or maybe some of Dave Wolverton's workshops.
But I digress...
My workshop chronology
2009 - Kris'n'Dean Show (Dean Wesley Smith & Kristine Kathryn Rusch)
[This message has been edited by Brad R Torgersen (edited May 04, 2011).]
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I wanted to go to the one with Denise but Dean advised against it. He thought the writing schedule and critiques would be too tough for me. I disagree with that but I have gotten a bit too whiny with him a couple of times over the years.
I would love to go to any workshop and even though money isn't a total problem-depending on the length and how far away it is- something else is.
Posted by Grayson Morris (Member # 9285) on :
Congratulations, Brad! I just got my first rejection from Analog. I'm really pleased to see how things are taking off for you this year!!
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I suppose congratulations are in order, though it was hard to do so when I got a form-letter rejection from Analog in my P. O. Box yesterday...I'm in a better mood now, so congratulations.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Stan Schmidt rejected me dozens of times between 1995 and 2010. Almost all of those were form rejections. Persistence wins. That, and being willing to learn along the way. Which makes selling regularly to Analog, now, a terrific bit of fun.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
LDWriter2,
That's the thing about critique workshops; which the Denise Little workshops with Kris and Dean are. You have to walk in there ready and willing to be kicked where it hurts. You can't go in with the attitude, "My story is precious to me and I will be wounded if anyone pokes at it." You have to walk in there ready to have the instructors and the class sigh and say, "this didn't work for me," or, "I faded on this one," or, "I really didn't like this at all." Or sometimes worse.
Of course, a professionally-run workshop will NEVER allow personal or ad hominem commentary. But that's where you, as the professional WRITER, must learn to disassociate. You are not your work. Your work is itself, and when your work is critiqued or fails with an audience, this is not YOUR personal failure. Not one bit.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Grayson, thanks! Yup, superb fun finally being able to sell regularly. About as much fun as I think I've ever had, doing anything. Enormously satisfying, in several ways.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
My first rejection from Analog from back in 1975 was signed by an assistant editor...later I got one signed by Ben Bova in the mix...I've never gotten anything other than a form letter from the Stan Schmidt era Analog.
I've learned enough so that my stuff is better than some of what they are publishing. So persistence is not the answer.
Posted by skadder (Member # 6757) on :
Great stuff, Brad!
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Robert, persistence WITHOUT learning is futility.
You have to be persistent AND willing to adapt and/or learn and/or change.
If I'd thought my writing was boffo perfect right out of the box in 1992, I'd never have sold anything because in 1992 my craft wasn't there. Even after 10 years of (more or less effort) my craft was still lacking in 2002. No sales. I finally started getting myself out of my comfort zone, in terms of how I was writing and also in terms of getting some honest feedback from people qualified to give it, and I eventually broke in and broke through.
I'm still learning. I expect my writing in 10 years may not look a lot like it does now. If I am doing the learning part correctly.
That's a hard one to swallow: that the learning never stops. For years I imagined I'd reach the "published" demarcation point, and all else would be candy. Nope. Still learning and grinding on my craft. Working with Mike Resnick was one of the most humbling things I've ever done. He made me feel like I was back at square zero. But I put my pride aside and kept my eyes open and asked LOTS of questions, and Mike has given me something to think about. Sveral somethings, in fact.
Again, I can't emphasize the learning aspect enough. Because if you can't or won't learn, then all the work and effort and patience in the world won't matter worth a dang.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
quote: That's the thing about critique workshops; which the Denise Little workshops with Kris and Dean are. You have to walk in there ready and willing to be kicked where it hurts. You can't go in with the attitude, "My story is precious to me and I will be wounded if anyone pokes at it." You have to walk in there ready to have the instructors and the class sigh and say, "this didn't work for me," or, "I faded on this one," or, "I really didn't like this at all." Or sometimes worse.
Actually, I do know all that. I've had quite a few stories critiqued over the years. Most of the time I take it pretty well, I say most of the time; now and then I let some frustration leak through, which isn't always directed the critique-er but probably sounds like it. Than there are times I have disagreed with the critique-er and have tried to say that in a nice way.
I believe I can handle a full workshop better than Dean believes, but in this case, it's his workshops.
Oh and speaking of doing the learning part correctly, I think I'm having problems with that. It never shows that I am learning.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited May 05, 2011).]
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I think I didn't congratulate you for the collaboration with Mike Resnick.
That would be so neat to do that, with any pro.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I have learned---I haven't gotten encouragement.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Not to put to fine a point on it, Robert, but with how long you've been working at this, for you to still be getting form rejections and no sales whatsoever, I have to think there's some kind of stumbling block that's keeping you from breaking through. I'd have to read more of your writing to pinpoint what the issue is, but there's got to be some sort of developmental thing happening. I hope you don't take that personally. It's not meant to be personal. I'd like to see you make it, precisely because you've been laboring for a long time. But all the labor in the world won't do you much good if you can't evolve as a writer.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I don't think I've gotten anything remotely personal from a market since the mid-1990s---and definitely not after my return from fanfic writing. I used to get some from the markets that made a point of saying something in the rejection---Ted White's Amazing (and a couple others) had a form checklist, and George Scithers's Asimov and Amazing sent fairly detailed cards or letters. But the current crop of the Big Three send me their form letters (or CG printed in the case of F & SF).
I do think I was known to some of these markets in a way I'm not to the current crop...up through the mid-to-late 1980s I wrote letters, and a lot of 'em got published in the letter columns---but somewhere in the pressure of making a living I lost interest in writing 'em. Except for Stan Schmidt, the current crop of editors are several layers removed from when I was active...
(I can't recall ever getting anything other than a basic form letter from Stan Schmidt's Analog---though I've been published in their letter column...)
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Brad for a half a second I thought you might be talking to me but it looks like there's someone who has been doing this even longer than I have...even with his break.
Robert, there are a couple of pro markets that send a short personal note on why they rejected your story. Beneath Ceaseless Skies is one and Black Gate, if they ever reopen to submissions, is another. I think there are one or two others. But I do know they are a couple of semipro that also send personal notes.
BCS isn't considered one of the biggies but I think it should be.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
quote:Not to put to fine a point on it,
Every time I read this I get They Might Be Giants stuck in my head.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Hang on (hang on!) tight!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
quote:
Hang on (hang on!) tight!
Speaking of being reminded of things. There used to be a poster of a kitten hanging onto a crossbeam with two paws.
Underneath it said "Hang in there" .
There were two or three such posters.
[This message has been edited by LDWriter2 (edited May 07, 2011).]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Guess what's on the 2011 Nebula ballot (announced today)?
Novelette category:
“Ray of Light,” Brad R. Torgersen (Analog Science Fiction and Fact, December 2011)
Congratulations, Brad, and best wishes!
Posted by Meredith (Member # 8368) on :
Wow! Huge Congratulations!
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Big congrats!
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Thank you! It's *very* exciting to be on the ballot, as Eric James Stone had won last year. I roomed with Eric in D.C. and got to sit there and stare at his Nebula after the awards ceremony. I wondered, "What does it take to get within striking distance?" Well, I guess I am finding out. Huge thanks to everyone who voted and/or supported. Huge.
Posted by rcmann (Member # 9757) on :
Warmest congratulations.
Posted by micmcd (Member # 7977) on :
Wow! Well done!
Posted by MartinV (Member # 5512) on :
Great work!
Posted by Osiris (Member # 9196) on :
Congrats, Brad!
Posted by Foste (Member # 8892) on :
Looking forward to another Bradilicious story!
Congrats, brah.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
For those keeping track, Brad has now added nominations for a Hugo in the novelette category for "Ray of Light" and for the Campbell Award for new writer. Congrats!
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
Ok, you guys convinced me, I went on Amazon and bought Brad's story.
As for his comment about being open to learning, I absolutely agree. That should be the goal for everything, once you start thinking you have it all figured out it's probably because you're doing it wrong.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
Well, you could just subscribe to Analog...
Congratulations, Brad.
Posted by Brad R Torgersen (Member # 8211) on :
Thanks everyone! I am in rather rare territory, being on all three of these short lists at the same time. I will consider myself tremendously fortunate if I come close to winning even one of them, much less actually winning one. Winning more than one? Pure crazy talk. Especially since I am sure all of this is merely a clerical error, and will be cleared up soon. (grin)
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I might have missed something somewhere in here but how did you hook about with Mike?
Posted by angel011 (Member # 9765) on :
I'm really pleased to see how things are taking off for you this year!!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)