Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Martial arts for tap-dancer?

This is topic Martial arts for tap-dancer? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

Any suggestions on a good martial for a dancer specializing in tap/flamenco/irish-step dancing? Kick boxing seems too easy and silly. Taekwando came up on a search, but I don't know what I'm really looking at.

I figured, after the ninja thread, there are a lot of people here who know a lot more about martials arts than me.

Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :

I am not a professional, but how about Tai-chi. Is that how you say it? you know the slow moving exercise/ body-mind-spirit thingy?

Posted by cgamble (Member # 2009) on :

Why not Shaolin Kung Fu -- or wushu.. wu shu is really good for dancers cause thats all it is, extreme dance.

But I guess its really what you want out of martial arts. Any sport is going to add to another sport, so if all you want to do is add more physical activity than any of them is a choice. Aikido for non-violaent self defence, Hapkido for violent self-defence.. ohh i could go on all night, but i wont

[This message has been edited by cgamble (edited August 11, 2004).]

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

I know Capoeira (don't know the right spelling) is about 50/50 fighting and dancing. It's a brazilian martial art. If you've ever seen the brazilian dudes facing each other doing big circle-kicks at each other in the air, that's Capoeira. very graceful and beautiful. Also very effective: Hoist Gracy (Once again, spelling unknown) the old Ultimate Fighting Championship fighter was Capoeira fighter, and he won a lot of fights.

Other than that though, I mostly just know about ninjas. If you want to know about a martial art that uses a lot of flying and stabbing, it's ninjas.

Posted by punahougirl84 (Member # 1731) on :

It all depends on what you are looking for. I don't think kick boxing is probably what you want, though don't tell the Thai people that it is either easy or silly! Real kick boxing (not the Billy Banks? exercise thing) is a serious sport, the practitioners have legs and abs of steel. But I think you meant the stuff women go do at lunch for exercise - still not easy, but maybe a little silly

For a dancer, perhaps a style with choreographed forms (kata in japanese) would be idea. Kung fu would be my recommendation. Within that there are many forms, which can be broadly divided into north and south. Southern forms are more choppy and hard hitting (ok, I am way generalizing - I could SHOW you so much better!), while northern forms are longer-flowing and smoother. Hmmm - ok, no one kill me, I'm doing the best I can. I'm not saying northern styles don't hit hard, or that southern is rough - the form I studied was a combination of both north and south (did tai chi as well).

Tap/flamenco/irish-step - I think you might want to lean towards southern-style kung fu. Maybe wing chun, dragon-style, southern fist, tiger... I would investigate what is near you and see if you can observe some classes at different schools. The instructors are used to this. Also, different schools teaching the same style might have very different TEACHING styles.

One thing you might want to avoid is the McDojo - the ones that don't really teach the entirety of the art you are or become interested in. Be careful about contracts too - they can be like private gyms, looking for long-term committments.

Good luck!

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

heh. I should clarify. I have a character who is a dancer and I want her to beat up a bad-guy. She teaches whatever this martial art is, so I want her to be good at it but--the fight is described from the bad-guy's point of view so I don't need to know many of the actual terms. I'm looking for a martial art that focuses on the feet and is very percussive in form.

See, I knew I didn't even know enough to ask the right questions.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Kickboxing, taekwondo, then.

Working out one time at the U, a dancer came in to stretch out and watched us for a while, then proceeded to do everything we could do, but more gracefully. I decided at that time to never, ever, pick on a dancer.

I would choose a more flowing form to go with the character as a dancer. Is she a dancer first and a martial artist second? Or a martial artist first? Is there tension between the 2 disciplines? Is she a dancer who has to constantly work to maintain the straight line lunges and kicks that some martial forms call for, or is she a martial artist who has to remember to tone down her approaches to partners in her dance forms (don't know the appropriate term here).

Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :

Savate. Nice picture here. Very dancer like.

http://www.cambridgemartialarts.freeserve.co.uk/savate.htm

Posted by Robyn_Hood (Member # 2083) on :

Isn't there some type of Eastern Fan Dancing that incorporates martial arts. Maybe I'm confused, but I'm sure there is something where the fans have blades on them so they can be used as a weapon.

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

You definitely want tae-kwon do. I have a friend who's studying it, and what he does certainly seems to match what you want.

If you need to know anything, just give me questions you want to ask & I'll relay them.

Posted by cgamble (Member # 2009) on :

tae kwon do would not be a good option if you are fighting anyone except a small child.. its a sport.. and as such they are trained to one hit then stop.. that's too unrealistic for fighting a "bad guy". mind you, i think its a fine sport, but in america these days, its just a sport

now, if she studied the root art of kwon do ( kung su) then she would be a serious bad-a** .. my second teacher taught us that when we were learning muah tai, and it could be effective.

of course muah tai ( not what everyone studies these days as cardio kickboxing ), is a very leg oriented with strong punches. you usually dont see women train in much less teach this, because its very much like regular boxing just with kicks added... and you can find teachers that are at various levels so there may be some schools that are very well developed for women. anyway, its good for beating up untrained bad guys with lots of bludgening..

of course, my fav is kung fu. its a good mix of arms and legs -- which if you think about it.. any fighter using almost all legs is going to loose fast. kung fu using hand techniques to get in position to do damage, at which point you can throw effective kicks, which is the most realistic method of fighting anyway considering that a kick with two people squared off will always give the win to the bigger of the two. (ie small woman kicking big man -- small woman will get hurt)

of course, there are a thousand variations of all of the styles i listed, but those are the primary ones with "name recognition" ..

PS. I do have personal knowledge of which I speak.

[This message has been edited by cgamble (edited August 12, 2004).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

No form of martial art would be particularly suited to a tap dancer.

In all forms of tap dancing, you need to keep your feet fairly close together most of the time, except in moves where you are pivoting on one foot and tapping with the other. Also, tap dance is all about tapping on the floor.

In all known martial arts, you need to keep your legs widely separated and place your center of balance between them.

Tae Kwon Do is Korean in origin, and emphasizes leg strength (Korea is a mountainous country, and Koreans are known for their strong legs and mobility in hilly terrain). It is a good martial art for women generally because it doesn't emphasize upper body strength. And presumably a dancer would have good leg strength.

But as I said, other than physical conditioning, there would be almost no cross training benefit between any form of tap dancing and any form of martial arts (including fencing, one of the most footwork oriented martial arts).

PS, the concentration on a single "Knock-out" blow in Tae Kwon Do is historical in origin, the art was originally developed to allow peasents to fight armored soldiers, and the moves concentrate on a crushing blow to the chest that will break the armor and disable the opponent.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

I was never taught to stop at one blow. In fact I was taught to neve stop at al, because I wasn't taught tournament tae-kwon-do. I was taught more how to avoid fights, than I was taught how to win one. But I was taught to win if I ever had to actually fight. And in the one case where I actualy had to use it, I never struck a blow, with hand or foot. I think some of the teaching here in the US is only a subset of tae-kwon-do.

Sorry for going offtopic, again.

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

I decided to go with Taekwondo, mostly for the name recognition. Now the question is, which of the spellings that you guys have used is the right one?

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Tae Kwon Do is the correct transcription of the Korean spelling (I suppose that "Kuon" would also be right, but Korean transcriptions always use "w" to indicate a dipthong "u"). Because the Roman alphabet makes no provision for distinguishing the long o sound from the short o sound, both simply use "o" when transcribed (and frequently the Korean "a" is written phonetically with an "o").

Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :

Mary, what kind of dance is she in and is she a professional or an amateur?

The reason I ask is because I've only known one dancer who was into martial arts. The rest tended to be too protective of their bodies to learn anything more than basic self-defense (if that).

But then, this was in a city with a relatively low crime rate, and (the big capper) it's only my own experience.

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

quote:
tae kwon do would not be a good option if you are fighting anyone except a small child.. its a sport.. and as such they are trained to one hit then stop..

There are two different forms, one of which is more of a competitive sparring sport (I believe this is the form taught by WTF, the World Taekwondo Foundation), the other of which is a more traditional martial art (taught by the ITF, the International Taekwondo Foundation). You really don't want to get them confused, as the mere existence of one tends to upset those who have learnt the other, from all I've heard.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Hmmm, that's possible too. Tae Kwon Do traditionally emphasizes aiming for a single disabling blow, because of it's origins, but it may be that the sporting form is a "tame" art like modern fencing.

Still, a trained fencer can beat the everloving snot out of you with his foil if he feels like causing you some pain. I personally would rather get hit with a taser (which would be far less humiliating, at least).

And Keeley has a very strong point about dancers and "hard" martial arts. I can see a dancer having an interest in Tai Chi or fencing, but serious Tae Kwon Do involves putting maximum force behind knockout blows, and emphasizes raw hitting power over finesse. Girls that go in for it don't tend to look like dancers.

I'm leaning towards fencing myself, if it is okay for her to use a weapon to win this fight. If not, then she should probably still use a "soft" style rather than a "hard" style. A woman with a dancer's body trying to win a fight using a hard style is probably going to lose. You should also consider basic self-defense classes, which teach practical skills for dealing with actual assailants rather than "dojo opponents" assumed to have similar builds and skills (i.e. a "fair fight").